Vendor refusing to get Building Completion Certs

angrypirate

We were in the process of buying a terraced house in greater london with an extension out the back. Its about 4m deep and single storey, built in about 2002 / 2003. Its been highlighted in our structural survey and mortgage valulation survey that we should check it has the necessary building regularisation certification and planning permission.

Our vendor claims it is permitted development as such does not need planning permission and does not require buidling regs. Our solicitor claims it does. The vendor didnt do the extension - they bought it just after it was done so im guessing her solicitor missed it. She is refusing to apply to the council building control for certification.

We are of the opinion this is a deal breaker - completely gutting as we have already invested in over £1500 for the survey and mortgage application etc.

Are we being unreasonable or is she?

poppysarah

You could ring the building control and ask them.
This will mean BC come down and has a look (I imagine) - it means you will pee off the sellers and not be able to buy an indemnity insurance policy.

It should have been done with building regs anyway. Just cos it doesn't need PP doesn't mean it doesn't need to be safe.

If it's not safe then you'd waste more than £1500 buying it and having to prop it up if it falls down.

mcfisco

Can you not ask the relevant council dept if it's a permitted development?

NOTE: - I haven't bought a house for over 20 years so not really up to date with things but that would be my tack if I was trying to save the deal

nikki1520

Possibly she was told this by a lazy solicitor who couldn't be bothered to do it when she bought the place.

Sounds like a deal breaker to me - it would surely cost a lot more to bring it up to code if it falls short, or to have it demolished if the requisite permissions are not in place.

I might be tempted to suggest that no decent solicitor would allow a sale to proceed without documentation supporting her claims. And probably a mortgage would be difficult to obtain if the solicitor wasn't entirely satisfied - therefore she should be on the lookout for a cash buyer.

I'd be tempted to phone the planning office at the local council and scope it out with them - find out how much it will cost and so on. If you do get as far as exchange, ensure it's conditional on approval being granted or documented as unnecessary.

That's just my tuppence ha'penny - I'm sure someone with in depth knowledge will be along to advise shortly

Good luck

angrypirate

poppysarah wrote: »

You could ring the building control and ask them.
This will mean BC come down and has a look (I imagine) - it means you will pee off the sellers and not be able to buy an indemnity insurance policy.

It should have been done with building regs anyway. Just cos it doesn't need PP doesn't mean it doesn't need to be safe.

If it's not safe then you'd waste more than £1500 buying it and having to prop it up if it falls down.

Thanks Poppy. We suggested that the vendor either provide building regs or if it is not required, they provide proof from the council stating its not but that request has seemingly fallen on deaf ears.

We arent really interested in an indemnity policy as we potentially will want to do work to the house that may require building regs sign off - getting building control in the property for other inspections may well risk invalidating a policy

angrypirate

mcfisco wrote: »

Can you not ask the relevant council dept if it's a permitted development?

NOTE: - I haven't bought a house for over 20 years so not really up to date with things but that would be my tack if I was trying to save the deal

Permitted development only covers the planning side as far as we are aware - it does not cover building regularisation certification (unless someone can provide me with evidence to the contrary). There are certain sizes of certain types of structures that dont require it - a porch, car port, conservatory etc.

Having been told independantly by 2 surveyors and my solicitor that this extension does require it, im inclined to go with the three professionals over the vendor on this.

DominicJ_2

Extentions need planning permission and need to be signed off by building control.

Conservatories dont usualy need planning permission and I dont "think" they need to be signed off by building control either, but they need to comply with building regulations.
If your solicitor is saying something, best listen, its what you pay them for.

Grimbal

DominicJ wrote: »

Extentions need planning permission and need to be signed off by building control.

Conservatories dont usualy need planning permission and I dont "think" they need to be signed off by building control either, but they need to comply with building regulations.
If your solicitor is saying something, best listen, its what you pay them for.

Sort of. Extensions that are smaller than a specific size do not need PP, and fall under PD. For example, you can extend out from a semi by 3m, a detached by 4m, as long as other guidelines (height of eaves/distance to boundary etc) are followed. If your vendor's extension is >3m, I suspect that it would have needed PP. Whether it needed PP or not however, it will still need to be signed off by buildings ctl

ETA: just spotted the dates in your post - not sure when the guidelines re:PD came in. Off to check.....
ETA: 1995 I think, with many subsequent amendments

angrypirate

Grimbal wrote: »

Sort of. Extensions that are smaller than a specific size do not need PP, and fall under PD. For example, you can extend out from a semi by 3m, a detached by 4m, as long as other guidelines are followed (height of eaves/distance to boundary etc) are followed. If your vendor's extension is >3m, I suspect that it would have needed PP. Whether it needed PP or not however, it will still need to be signed off by buildings ctl

ETA: just spotted the dates in your post - not sure when the guidelines re:PD came in. Off to check.....
ETA: 1995 I think, with many subsequent amendments

The lack of planning permission doesnt really bother us - the limitation (4 years) has expired. Our real issue is the lack of building regularisation certificates

pmlindyloo

As already said planning permission and building regulations are 2 separate things.

The extension may not have needed planning permission but it will have needed to have met the building regulations.

We have just had a garage conversion done. It did not need planning permission but it did need to comply with building regulations. It was checked by someone from Building Control at intervals and on completion they issued a certificate.

Have a look at this link:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/wps/portal/portalhome/unauthenticatedhome/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gjtxBnJydDRwMLbzdLA09nSw_zsKBAIwN3U_1wkA6zeHMXS4gKd29TRwNPI0s3b2e_AGMDAwOIvAEO4Gig7-eRn5uqX5CdneboqKgIAGUwqho!/dl3/d3/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

From this you will probably be able to determine whether the extension needed planning permission.


If you will not accept an indemnity insurance then you/the vendor must telephone the local council offices.

If the extension needed planning permission the council will be able to tell you if planning permission was given and the vendor can apply for a copy.

This also applies to the building regulations.

I cannot understand how the vendor and his solicitor did not query this when he bought house. There is a question on one of the forms about all this.

I also believe there are a number of years after which the council cannot take action (hope someone can clarify this) so it is possible that you would not need to worry about this aspect.

Of course, you would need to check that the structure was safe through an appropriate survey.

If you have time to do a search on here there have been many threads about this kind of problem.

It does not have to be a deal breaker but of course you must do what you feel comfortable with.

pimento

We had this exact thing happen to us when we were selling our Victorian terraced house in London in 2001.

The back two storey extension was built by the previous owner and nothing was said by our solicitor when we had purchased the house in 1992.

As fas as I am aware, Building Regulations always apply, even if Planning Permission wasn't required. To get our extension regularised would have meant the Building Control people digging an exploratory hole in our back yard, at least four feet deep to see if the foundations of the extension were built to regs. I was bereft! I called our old vendor who assured me he had had it signed off and my trusty estate agent actually went down to the council and had them check their paper archives in the basement and they did find the documents I needed to sell.

It could have been a complete nightmare.