Log burner fiited incorrectly...fire last night please help.

clairebell

Hi i am wondering if anybody can help us, last April we used a company to get a log burner they charged us for the bruner and arranged for the fitter (who they advised was fully qualified etc) to fit it and advised us to give him £250 cash (we have invoice to show this). It was fitted and we waited for our certificate, this never came and after many calls to the shop and trips they get fobbing me off saying he had gone awol and not employed by them anymore and they are having lost of problems with him.

Anyway last night we had a chimney fire, we were woke up at 2.30am by our smoke alarms, house was full of smoke, we grabbed baby and son and called fire brigade. Fire brigade took log burner out and said the flu pipe was fat to short and it was an accident waiting to happen, they are giving statement to this affect.

We have some damaged bits and bobs but more importantly we are all okay, however we have breathed in smoke in our sleep. Our baby was at a&e the night before as she has a chest infection so this has been the weekend from hell! The other three of us have asthma. The house stinks of smoke after all day clenaing.

Just wondered where we stand as even if shop agree to reinstall i wouldnt trust them now but they need to know and we are really shaken and angry!:mad:

rustyboy21

Was the engineer actually employed by the retailer?

A lot of retailers ( not me ) just give the details of a registered engineer to the consumer and let them contact them to arrange fitting.

It sounds like he was self employed, if the retailer siad just pay the engineer £250 on the day.

Bit of a difficult one unless you know what the position is. If the retailer has employed the engineer on your behalf, you may have a claim on the retailers insurance. If it was purely they supplied the product and you arranged the fitting with the engineer they gave the contact details for, then they may be considered in acting in good faith and it is not their responsibility.

Have they any contact details? Is he on the HETAS registration site as being registered? If he is, they will have his contact details and he will also have to have his own insurance policy .

Glad you got out ok.

May be better posting this on the in your home or LPG heating and oil threads. There are a lot of stovies on there and also a lot of hetas engineers who may be able to tell you how you stand better than on here.

agrinnall

I would say that because the fitter was picked by the shop and not by you then they are responsible for ensuring that his work is of a suitable standard. You should probably approach them first to see what they say, but if they do try to fob you off you should get an independent report produced to back up what the Fire Brigade told you then go back to the shop. If they still aren't prepared to do what you want then you will probably need to look at small claims court - if you have a legal expenses policy on your house insurance then speak to them for help. You could also try Trading Standards if you would like official action to be taken.

clairebell

Thanks for both your help, the fire shop arranged the installation, i never even knew the installers name until he came as they states they had two installers and would arrange it (although invoice does show his name), . The invoice from the company says fitting price £250 to be paid to the fitter on the day of installation

i will try adding to other forum too about your home.

cant find him on hetas which is a bit worrying as invoice doesnt show hetas registered but they said he was as he was doing certificate.

Thanks again

rustyboy21

I would contact the retailer and say that unless they supply you with the engineers name,address and registration details, then you will have no alternative but to pursue them for compensation. I still don't think that he is employed by the retailer, if he was, then the retailer would have not said just pay the fitter for the fitting on the day.

The engineer has a lot to be afraid of here. He has his HETAS registration at risk, H&S will get involved and a possible court case to go through.

Also check online to see if the retailer is HETAS registered. He doesn't need to be , to be able to sell solid fuel stoves, but he would be if he had his own engineers employed. That may give you some more info.

Also, did the retailer quote you for the supply and fit of the flue liner?

Another thing to bear in mind is that he may not have installed it wrongly in the first place. The liner would be a flexible liner which end with a cowl of some sorts on the chimney stack and attached to the enamel stove pipe of the stove. It may have been a problem with the securing of the liner to the cowl or stove. If the strong winds we have had have hit the cowl, then it may have dislodged the liner from it's clips and it has fallen down. A liner in effect is like a very long slinky spring. It would be impossible for him to fit it into your flue without attaching it both ends, as it would just spring around everywhere. Just thinking it could be a problem not of his causing, but has left you in a dangerous position. Don't know who is at fault in those cases.

clairebell

rustyboy21 wrote: »

I would contact the retailer and say that unless they supply you with the engineers name,address and registration details, then you will have no alternative but to pursue them for compensation. I still don't think that he is employed by the retailer, if he was, then the retailer would have not said just pay the fitter for the fitting on the day.

The engineer has a lot to be afraid of here. He has his HETAS registration at risk, H&S will get involved and a possible court case to go through.

Also check online to see if the retailer is HETAS registered. He doesn't need to be , to be able to sell solid fuel stoves, but he would be if he had his own engineers employed. That may give you some more info.

Also, did the retailer quote you for the supply and fit of the flue liner?

Another thing to bear in mind is that he may not have installed it wrongly in the first place. The liner would be a flexible liner which end with a cowl of some sorts on the chimney stack and attached to the enamel stove pipe of the stove. It may have been a problem with the securing of the liner to the cowl or stove. If the strong winds we have had have hit the cowl, then it may have dislodged the liner from it's clips and it has fallen down. A liner in effect is like a very long slinky spring. It would be impossible for him to fit it into your flue without attaching it both ends, as it would just spring around everywhere. Just thinking it could be a problem not of his causing, but has left you in a dangerous position. Don't know who is at fault in those cases.

After looking into more detail i get the impression the company isnt HETAS registered but they stated the fitter was as i kept mentioning getting this certificate. They did not quote us for the flue liner as he said we did not need one as chimney was already lined with cement (ballooned he called it).

The reason for the fire is the flue pipe was only just sat above the fire board and there was at least a foot gap between that and the chimney. As a result all this the sutt was gathering in the cavity on top of the fire board which then set on fire, this has been happening over time.

Our invoice shows we paid for a metre of flue pipe and he has only used a foot, we have kept all the parts just incase we need to show them

Thanks

Tom_Jones

Get down to the retailer tommorrow and ask for the fitters details, do not take no for an answer. If they refuse report them to TS, and the Police immediately. The fitter was recommended by the retailer, it's their responsibility to get him to provide a certificate and employ a properly qualified fitter. I would doubt this person is HETAS qualified, thank goodeness you had working smoke alarms.

However you should have checked his qualifications and not paid until you had the certificate, and paying in cash for such an installation is always a big no no.

Good luck.

clairebell

Thanks Tom_jones, i am very annoyed with myself for allowing this to happen, never again. I should know better.

My husband has taken the day off work and we are going first thing. Am i asking for fitters name, address and registration number?

If i am put in the situation to report to police is it for fraud? or something else?

I very much doubt he is hetas qualified especially to make such an obvious mistake, i have also found out today he has done this same thing to a friend of a friend, she found out it was unsafe by getting another installer out as she needed her cerficate for insurance, she also notified the shop hers was unsafe which concerns me as they should be informing people who have used him, we could have been killed.

Thanks again for all your help.

Tom_Jones

It's not fraud but an illegal installation, you have to be Hetas approved to install a solid fuel burner. If he was paid in cash did he declare this to HMRC ?

arcon5

Tom_Jones wrote: »

It's not fraud but an illegal installation, you have to be Hetas approved to install a solid fuel burner. If he was paid in cash did he declare this to HMRC ?

I'm not sure the guys tax affairs is relevant to ops case. Even if he wasn't declaring his earnings, it doesn't really act as ammo.

arcon5

clairebell wrote: »

Thanks for both your help, the fire shop arranged the installation, i never even knew the installers name until he came as they states they had two installers and would arrange it (although invoice does show his name), . The invoice from the company says fitting price £250 to be paid to the fitter on the day of installation

i will try adding to other forum too about your home.

cant find him on hetas which is a bit worrying as invoice doesnt show hetas registered but they said he was as he was doing certificate.

Thanks again

I think the whole issue with the fitter is to determine who you have a contract with - the guy or the retailer

The invoice for installation, is that issued by the company? If so, despite the fact you paid the installation guy on the day, this should be enough to prove you and the retailer have a contract to install it (if they sub-contracted the work to him then that's not relevant) - if this is the case then you can pursue the retailer and not worry about tracking down the guy.