18185 and Plusnet

NonGeographicalMan

I tried to PM Plusnet's Company Representative on this issue but I see that annoyingly he/she has blocked the PM feature.

This issue of using 1899 is very important to me as I am just about to help migrate a close relative's broadband line over to Plusnet. They feels they never makes enough calls to justify an Anytime calls package even though I feel with ever increasing Connection Fees etc if you fail to dial 1899 that it is the safest option. Even if they did go for Anytime calls they would still want to use 1899 to call friends in the USA and Europe.

Unfortunately the conversation in the thread just seems to have stopped dead without any stated resolution but I suspect this means that it was resolved to the OP's satisfaction and that Plusnet is not now double billing him for 1899 calls? Also as stated by others it would be illegal (a violation of Ofcom's General Conditions) for Plusnet not to have barred indirect access on the line and so so allow the 1899 code to be used by its customers only to then charge for the phone call again itself on its own bills as though the 1899 code had not been used. However judging from Plusnet's spectactular technical ineptitude in the past (eg all mail stored on the SMTP servers by customers lost many times in the era of Lee Strafford and pre BT) I would not put it past them to make such an accidental mess up.

I 'm probably going to sign my relative up to Plusnet today for fibre but need a definitive answer on this before the connection goes live. If for any reason 1899 was blocked I would have to get them to take the Anytime calls package and/or complain to Ofcom about the illegal double billing by Plusnet of calls routed via one of their competitors. I still think it would be safer for my relative to get Anytime calls anwyay but it is very hard to persuade them of that.

The estimated increase in speed (which could well be a significant under estimate as the cabinet was only turned on for fibre two months ago and there are not yet many live connections for BT to gather their actual use stats from) by moving from copper to fibre at this address is from 2.5Mbps up to 37Mbps so there is every incentive to upgrade to fibre broadband, especially as my relative now also has a BBC Iplayer enabled television.

macman

Company Reps are not allowed to use the PM function on the forum, for obvious reasons.

NonGeographicalMan

macman wrote: »

Company Reps are not allowed to use the PM function on the forum, for obvious reasons.

And what obvious reason is that then which you so usefully choose not to state? If its not obvious to me then I'm sure its not obvious to lots of other people. Also as the Company Rep may not have subscribed to this thread (he may instead rely on just Googling moneysavingexpert forum and Plusnet from time to time) its potentially extremely annoying in terms of getting a timely reply to my post.

But never mind using my own initiative I have now emailed the said Company Rep and his manager, Bob Pullen, at their direct Plusnet email addresses.

Roger1

It would be useful if Plus.Net were to respond to the outstanding queries.

I'm a satisfied customer using Plus broadband with a BT line. We use 18185 considerably to call family abroad and most UK numbers.

I'm thinking of upgrading to Plus fibre with Plus phone line but won't do so without the 18185 facility. Come on, Plus. We need an answer! Other suppliers are available.

luci

When I was with Plusnet I used 18185 no problem at all.

macman

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

And what obvious reason is that then which you so usefully choose not to state? If its not obvious to me then I'm sure its not obvious to lots of other people. Also as the Company Rep may not have subscribed to this thread (he may instead rely on just Googling moneysavingexpert forum and Plusnet from time to time) its potentially extremely annoying in terms of getting a timely reply to my post.

But never mind using my own initiative I have now emailed the said Company Rep and his manager, Bob Pullen, at their direct Plusnet email addresses.

So they can't tout for business using the PM function...
Don't blame the reps, it's an MSE policy.

NonGeographicalMan

Well my relative has now signed up for Plusnet Unlimited Fibre with a very early install date of only a few days time. So the issue of whether or not 1899 is allowed as normal without double charging is going to become relevant.

I did try to persuade them to take the Anytime Calls Package on the basis of the simplicity but my relative is adamant that they do not average more than about 40 daytime calls per month to 01/02/03 numbers so hasn't gone for that for now. They went for the Unlimited rather than Essentials option on the basis of both the fact that the estimated 37.2Mbps connection speed could in fact easily be 50 or 55Mbps and not having to worry how much the grandchildren were using BBC Iplayer etc.

So if Plusnet hasn't resolved their double charging for calls made via 1899 on their own bills problem it is going to become an issue again very shortly and a definitive statement on the matter from Bob Pullen is now required in order to put the matter to bed.

I'm also now wondering about the free call period for the Plusnet evening and weekend calls and whether this starts at the same late 7pm as now allowed by BT or whether its the 6pm still allowed for by instance Post Office Homephone?

However answering my own question I find at http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/price_guide.html that Plusnet are in lock step with BT on using the new later anti customer 7pm start time. So I would therefore also expect them to be in lock step with BT on not barring Indirect Access. Since Plusnet are to all intents and purposes a Yorkshire domiciled part of BT (even now quoted as such in tables showing market share by different broadband providers) I cannot see how they could be allowed to bar Indirect Accesss when Ofcom specifically prevents BT from doing so as the incumbent network operator with Significant Market Power.

luci wrote: »

When I was with Plusnet I used 18185 no problem at all.

However my relative uses Finarea's https://www.1899.com calling brand and it is on calls dialled using the 1899 brand that the double billing problem seems to have previously existed.

Confirmation of the actual position from a senior rep of Plusnet is therefore required.

System

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

Confirmation of the actual position from a senior rep of Plusnet is therefore required.

Yes.
Since Plusnet is not BT (even though BT owns it), Plusnet could bar use of all or some indirect access codes.
If Plusnet do not bar 18185 (for example), then they must program their billing system to implement it properly. This means that Plusnet bills Finarea for an Originating charge agreed between Plusnet and Finarea. Plusnet must not bill their customer at all for any call made using 18185.

NonGeographicalMan

YoungNick wrote: »

Since Plusnet is not BT (even though BT owns it), Plusnet could bar use of all or some indirect access codes.

If Plusnet do not bar 18185 (for example), then they must program their billing system to implement it properly. This means that Plusnet bills Finarea for an Originating charge agreed between Plusnet and Finarea. Plusnet must not bill their customer at all for any call made using 18185.

Plusnet is now actually BT (even though it was originally wholly independent and run by a maverick CEO called Lee Strafford) in as much as its ownership is 100% BT and its current CEO is also previously a longstanding BT employee.

This creates an expectation that almost everything will be the same as BT (eg the time of day that evening evening and weekend calls starts is the same 7pm as BT) other than the price and the quality of customer service. Plusnet's main marketing proposition is that it offers superior UK only (physically Yorkshire based although the employees working there can actually come from anywhere) customer service and technical support at a cheaper price than BT.

The sole reason BT continues to run Plusnet as a separate Yorkshire flavoured (I'm surprised they haven't yet also had tv advertising involving the Tetley Tea Folk) entity is so so that it can expand its market share with price conscious telecoms customers who are not brainwashed from birth in to believing that it is unsafe to have your phone line and broadband with anyone other than BT (my brother in law would never consider any telecoms or broadband supplier other than BT even though ironically he comes from Yorkshire by birth).

In any event Plusnet does not bar use of any forms of Indirect Access code on its lines in just the same manner as BT does not do so. By not barring Indirect Access they have consequently accepted a contractual duty not to bill their customer themselves for that call and to only allow their customer to be billed for that call by their Indirect Access supplier.

If Plusnet fail to do this and doubel bill customers using Indirect Access they will undoubtedly be in violation of whatever aspect of Ofcom's General Conditions govern the use of the Indirect Access system on the BT Openreach telecoms platform. If the OP's information is correct Plusnet appear to be in direct violation of General Condition 11 and this would be a matter for appropriate dispute resolution under General Condition 14 of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The General Conditions of Entitlement, Final statement issued by the Director General of Telecommunications - 9 July 2003" - [/FONT]see https://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/licensing/2003/cond0703.htm

The fact that nobody at Plusnet has so far been willing to make any clear statement about this suggests they may well indeed have a problem in the way their billing model currently handles calls made using some Indirect Access Codes. And if they are thinking of fixing this by barring Indirect Access in the same way as TalkTalk I would strongly advise them not to do so as it is likely to lose them a significant number of customers given their highly uncompetitivve phone rates for certain types of phone call such as international mobile telephone calls.

I continue to await a statement of clarification on this matter from Plusnet.

Jo4

I have been a satisfied Plusnet broadband customer for some time and today I decided to telephone Plusnet and sign up to their line rental as well. One of the reasons I signed up was that every time my home alarm would go off it would telephone my mobile and my husband's mobile which was costing quite a bit as I was with BT. If I added 18185 in front of our mobile telephone numbers the alarm would not ring our mobiles.

After reading this thread I hope we can use 18185. I would be interested to know if I am now not going to be any better off! (I also got unlimited broadband for less than I had been paying for the 10GB monthly allowance)