JSA claim. Undeclared savings. Please help!

LordLee

I'm hoping someone can help me as i'm worried sick.

Back in August I was suddenly made redundant after 11 years within a company. It happened very quickly. I was fortunate that a couple of weeks before I was made redundant my parents had given me £10,000 to assist me for the future. (This is the only money I will ever get from them as they sadly don't own a house and have struggled for years... but a friend of my mother passed away leaving them a sum and they decided to help me also - anyway that's another story.)

When I was suddenly made redundant it was a very worrying time. But i had no intention of signing on for JSA. I have never claimed it and just didn't want to. I was being all too proud. I was told by various people that I should do as I am entitled to it after paying all my NI contributions and they will assume that i should have claimed it anyway when it comes to my 'payment in lieu of notice'.

Reluctantly applied for JSA around a couple of weeks later I believe. By this time the money I had left was £8100 after buying a new computer and paying off a student loan.

When filling in the form i left the savings field blank. Not ever having had that amount of money ever i was still thinking in terms of my earnings and didn't think of it. When i realised later and wanted to correct it i was incredibly confused as I had been told my savings were completely irrelevant when it came to contributions based jobseekers allowance. So i did my own research and low and behold on the government website it also states savings are irrelevant when it comes to contribution based JSA. So i left it.

I signed off at the end of October as I went to travelling for a month to decide what to do with my life. Came back and signed on again in December and just didn't mention it again as i was still claiming contribution based JSA.

However... A friend told me recently that as I was claiming housing & council tax benefit also savings do count. I had no idea of this i thought it all fell under the one application for JSA.

I am now very worried. I am a very honest person and have informed the job centre of all the little cash in hand jobs i have done whilst signed on (i'm a graphic designer and get the occasional private work), however small, and told them when my redundancy came through (statutory so not much).

I keep seeing the benefit fraud ads and read stories of people getting a criminal record and it scares me to the point of feeling ill as this is if i have done wrong it is a genuine error but i still don't understand as i thought whilst on contribution based savings are irrelevant.

Do i go into the job centre and tell them of my error 6 months ago (having signed off and back on twice) or is it ok for me to just leave it as i am still on contribution based?

This is all so confusing for me. I've never claimed before... i've always just worked and had a salary.

I've only now started to learn about tax as i have to declare all the little freelance jobs to the tax man of course (even though it is way under what is needed to be earn to be taxed.

Please someone give me some advice. Sooo worried.

HappyMJ

How much do you have in savings now? If it's under £6,000 I would just leave it. You won't be done for benefit fraud or a criminal record if it genuinely was an accidental oversight. The difference is only £4 a week anyway so you should be telling the council who will adjust your housing benefit payments down by £4 a week.

LordLee

HappyMJ wrote: »

How much do you have in savings now? If it's under £6,000 I would just leave it. You won't be done for benefit fraud or a criminal record if it genuinely was an accidental oversight. The difference is only £4 a week anyway so you should be telling the council who will adjust your housing benefit payments down by £4 a week.

I now have £4700 (as it was topped up by my redundancy). The council? This is where it gets confusing. The housing benefit etc was applied for via the job centre JSA form? So they are separate?

As I don't want to be looked upon as if I was trying to hide anything as it definitely was an oversight I just wonder if I should tell them? Still very worried.

McKneff

The job centre and the DWP are two seperate things.

The DWP pay your housing benefit, not the job centre.

You are paid by the DWP, the two dont necessarily work together.

If 'fessing up' is what you feel you have to do then contact the DWP, not the job centre, they have a way of forgetting to pass things on.

If you want peace of mind, speak to someone at the DWP, its obviously an oversight, and youre obviously an honest person all they will do, if anything is ask you to pay back any overpayments,they may just say forget it.

Stop worrying about benefit fraud and ciminal records, its just not going to happen. When you see some of the cases that are actually taken to court it is usually deliberate, over a long period of time and thousands of pounds.

If you need more moral support just come back on here, but do let us know how you get on.

rogerblack

Several issues.
If you spend money that you are not required to - if nobody is chasing you for the money and threatening court, or charging you extreme interest, with the aim of getting more benefit, you may be treated as if you still had that money.

Firstly - did you spend any of the money before you were made redundant?
If so, this amount of money is not considered.

How much money did you have when you were made redundant?

In addition, you are only entitled to contributions based JSA for 6 months.
I'm unsure as to the timelines, and if you'd have been switched over to income based now.
If this is the case, and you are now on income based - you need to ASAP report your savings (including any money in bank accounts), as you have been overpaid, because your benefit should have been reduced due to your savings.

You may face problems.
Assuming that you diddn't spend any before you were made redundant, you've spent a significant amount of money 'frivolously'.
Namely - a presumably expensive month-long holiday, paying off the student loan, and arguably the computer.

You may be treated as still having this money.
If you are in fact now on income-based JSA, as I suspect, and have been overpaid, then you need to pay that back, as well as some council tax.
It's possible that this will leave you over the 6000 limit, (when this money you are treated as still having - notional capital is added to your real capital).
If you do, then any excess over 6000 reduces your benefit by 1 pound a week for every 250.

It's unlikely the overpayment is large enough to cause a criminal prosecution, but you still need to contact them ASAP.

LordLee

Thanks for your help hear guys! Truly appreciated.

To answer your questions rogerblack...

Firstly - did you spend any of the money before you were made redundant? - Yes. I bought my computer and paid off my student loan before I claimed. This took me down to around £8100 at time of claiming. (As a graphic designer the computer is a necessary anyway to help me get a job/work.)

How much money did you have when you were made redundant? - When I was made redundant I had around the £8100 mentioned plus i think i was paid whatever holiday pay from my company (which i'd have to check).

I have just checked my letter and I am definitely STILL on contributions based JSA. It runs out soon though, in middle of March.

There were a few more items purchased before i signed off that were necessary for my line of work taking me below £6000.

Wotcha reckon?

rogerblack

LordLee wrote: »

There were a few more items purchased before i signed off that were necessary for my line of work taking me below £6000.

Wotcha reckon?

If, as you say - you spent some money before you were made redundant - if you did not know you were being made redundant and would need to claim - this money is irrelevant.
It's only spending after you knew that you might need to claim benefits that can be looked at.

If this is the case, it sounds like you have a small amount of council tax/housing benefit (if applicable) to repay.

If you started out at (say) 8500,

If you can justify if asked the purchases you have made, this would knock 10 quid a week off your entitlement to CTB - still leaving you with around half of it at the start of the period, with it reducing as you spent the money, till there is no effect at 6000.

If - for example - you are found to have spent money (deprived yourself of capital) to the tune of 1000 say - if the holiday isn't allowed - say - then you are treated as if you still have that money - and your actual capital needs to fall to 5000, in order to not affect benefits.

LordLee

rogerblack wrote: »

If, as you say - you spent some money before you were made redundant - if you did not know you were being made redundant and would need to claim - this money is irrelevant.
It's only spending after you knew that you might need to claim benefits that can be looked at.

If this is the case, it sounds like you have a small amount of council tax/housing benefit (if applicable) to repay.

If you started out at (say) 8500,

If you can justify if asked the purchases you have made, this would knock 10 quid a week off your entitlement to CTB - still leaving you with around half of it at the start of the period, with it reducing as you spent the money, till there is no effect at 6000.

If - for example - you are found to have spent money (deprived yourself of capital) to the tune of 1000 say - if the holiday isn't allowed - say - then you are treated as if you still have that money - and your actual capital needs to fall to 5000, in order to not affect benefits.

Right... i think i understand. So in other words I need to go in and 'fess up'? I am more than willing to pay what is owed. I just am worried about getting into trouble.

But i would just say... why is it any concern of anyones what i did with any money before i signed on? i didn't even want to sign on. it was the job centre them selves that said i SHOULD sign on as it is my right. so if i left it a month... then signed on... why do they need to go back in time and 'decide' how i spent money?

and just to clarify... the contribution based issue doesn't have anything to do with housing benefit? why don't they tell people this? it is just one JSA form and you get to tick a box on it asking if you need help paying rent etc.

so confusing. they don't teach this in schools. are we all supposed to just know?

pendulum

My advice is just don't worry about it, keep under the £6,000 and forget all about it. Fessing up will involve a lot of red tape and cause a headache.

sleepless_saver

LordLee wrote: »

and just to clarify... the contribution based issue doesn't have anything to do with housing benefit? why don't they tell people this? it is just one JSA form and you get to tick a box on it asking if you need help paying rent etc.

so confusing. they don't teach this in schools. are we all supposed to just know?

The JSA form also contained a box for you to include your savings. You left that blank so they assumed you had zero savings and went on to pay you housing benefit.

It was this that caused the problem, not the fact that you don't understand the benefit system.

But as you will be moving off contribution based JSA if you're still jobless in March, you might find it helpful to get a bit of knowledge about benefits. Have a look at the direct gov website for some basic info.

McKneff

LordLee wrote: »

Right... i think i understand. So in other words I need to go in and 'fess up'? I am more than willing to pay what is owed. I just am worried about getting into trouble.

But i would just say... why is it any concern of anyones what i did with any money before i signed on? i didn't even want to sign on. it was the job centre them selves that said i SHOULD sign on as it is my right. so if i left it a month... then signed on... why do they need to go back in time and 'decide' how i spent money?

and just to clarify... the contribution based issue doesn't have anything to do with housing benefit? why don't they tell people this? it is just one JSA form and you get to tick a box on it asking if you need help paying rent etc.

so confusing. they don't teach this in schools. are we all supposed to just know?

But please, not to the job centre, go or ring the DWP, the job centre will only confuse the matter for you.