Part P consultation

newbie1980

hi all
the thing with part p is that you go in to change a light for £30 but part p insists gas/water bond is in place so it turns into alot bigger job the sooner part p wasnt so stupid would be great.
part p was a good idea but when you can buy a fuseboard from b and q with 10 sockets free makes a mockery of it

27col

You might not be able to smell electricity but you can certainly smell the results of a lot of electrical problems. Burning insulation is not a smell you forget in a hurry. At least, that is what I have learned as one who worked on electrical equipments most of my life.

baldelectrician

newbie1980 wrote: »

hi all
the thing with part p is that you go in to change a light for £30 but part p insists gas/water bond is in place so it turns into alot bigger job the sooner part p wasnt so stupid would be great.
part p was a good idea but when you can buy a fuseboard from b and q with 10 sockets free makes a mockery of it

You are wrong

It's BS7671 that deems these things - it's been around a lot longer than Part P

malc_b

My opinion is that if you want all DIY work to be safe then you need to consider costs. My local authority charges a flat £250 for any work under part P. The average is £231. That's just silly. It makes DIY not cost effective, unless you don't declare it.

So my suggestion would be to subsidise the DIY fee (and I can't believe it actually costs £250 anyway). Or have a DIY electrics course at night school, at a reasonable price, and if you pass that consider that DIYer competent for just DIY only, not trade.

The way I see it there is a lot of difference between a DIYer working on just his own house (perhaps son/daughter's too) who does electrics perhaps once a year at most, most likely once every few years, and somebody doing electrics 5 days a week. The tradesman can potentially cause far more fires and deaths so needs more rigorous control (not that I think Part P actually achieves that).

Unless there is a reasonable cost route to ensure DIY electrics are safe then they will either ignore part P or put off work that should be done.

Unlike gas where you could blow up the whole street, electrics are restricted to fire/deaths in your house so there is a marked difference.

The other daft point to part P is that it based on an out of date wiring spec (2001) so strictly speaking no one complies. Also, the people who write the wiring spec are not considered to be competent persons because they are not members of one of the approved bodies.

fluffpot

I can't see many DIY'ers investing in training and the test kit (upwards of £500 plus calibration each year) just to do one or two jobs - that's even assuming that they understand how to use it properly.

And fires caused by electrical faults are the most common - not just your house at risk - what about your neighbours....

BS7671 (wiring regs) was updated in 2008 BTW - hopefully you've been working to it - there were some significant changes for domestic work.....

sillygoose

I do all my own electrical work despite part p. Partly because I have higher electronic qualifications and experience and served time working as an electrician, I look up and adhere to current requirements at all times.

But partly because I am the only person I trust to do it right. Now I am sure there are plenty of honest straight cut electricians here that do a good job.. but how does anyone really know how good the person let loose on their house is? without standing watching over their shoulder! And the fact they are qualified means very little. It means they know how to do it properly, doesn't mean they actually will.

I have access to expensive PAT, earth loop, line impedance, insulation etc equipment the match or better than many electricians have.

My point is that DIY'ers are not all equal and yet are all restricted the same, thats not an effective regulation in my view.

malc_b

fluffpot wrote: »

I can't see many DIY'ers investing in training and the test kit (upwards of £500 plus calibration each year) just to do one or two jobs - that's even assuming that they understand how to use it properly.

And fires caused by electrical faults are the most common - not just your house at risk - what about your neighbours....

BS7671 (wiring regs) was updated in 2008 BTW - hopefully you've been working to it - there were some significant changes for domestic work.....

That's an excessive price. Meters can be got for under a tenner and I got a insulation tester for about 50 quid AFAIR. Calibration is also excessive for DIY. If you want to check the meter then buy a few resistors to cross check what it reads. The probability of say 10 1% resistors all being faulty is pretty low. Or buy 2 meters.

Part P is more directed at shock than fires. It focuses on bathrooms and kitchens. There are no rules to stop DIY spurs etc. except in kitchen or even replacement of sockets in kitchens and not tightening the screws.

And of course I look at the latest wiring specs. I do it so rarely that I always need to update myself as to the latest standards.

My opinion is that it would be better to scrap part P for houses with 30mA RCDs. That would encourage more RCDs as then DIYers would be legally allowed to do their own work. The cost of part P approval makes it economic to install RCD instead which raises the safety a lot more than part P does. RCD protects you not only against faulty wiring but also drilling holes in the wrong place.

keystone

malc_b wrote: »

Part P is the rules than prevent DIYers being able to do any and all electrics as they used to be able to do.

Sorry but you are wrong.

[QUOTE=newbie1980]the thing with part p is that you go in to change a light for £30 but part p insists gas/water bond is in place so it turns into alot bigger job the sooner part p wasnt so stupid would be great.[/QUOTE]Also wrong.

malc_b wrote: »

The other daft point to part P is that it based on an out of date wiring spec (2001) so strictly speaking no one complies. Also, the people who write the wiring spec are not considered to be competent persons because they are not members of one of the approved bodies.

Wrong again.

sillygoose wrote: »

My point is that DIY'ers are not all equal and yet are all restricted the same, thats not an effective regulation in my view.

You misunderstand Part P.

and that Leif my dear old chap was what I was on about in my post you got seriously oversensitive about. I wasn't critcising you for one second although you took it that way. Edit: and where did that post go please?

Cheers

keystone

malc_b wrote: »

That's an excessive price. Meters can be got for under a tenner......

and I can buy one of those stupid inadequate and downright dangerous neon testers for a quid. Use the right tool for the job.

Calibration is also excessive for DIY.

:rotfl::rotfl:I'll bet you will be the first one to squeak that you want to see the calibration certificate for the LTI 2020 that the old bill used to nab you doing 45 in a 30 limit.

Part P ...........................focuses on bathrooms and kitchens.

No it focuses on special locations for which notification is required to the LABC that the work done in those locations complies with and has been properly tested to the relevant regulations.

There are no rules to stop DIY spurs etc. except in kitchen or even replacement of sockets in kitchens and not tightening the screws.

But that is NOT what Part P is for.

And of course I look at the latest wiring specs. I do it so rarely that I always need to update myself as to the latest standards.

and your following paragraph would indicate that you have zero knowledge of Edn 17 of the wiring regulations.

Cheers

Leif

keystone wrote: »

and that Leif my dear old chap was what I was on about in my post you got seriously oversensitive about. I wasn't critcising you for one second although you took it that way. Edit: and where did that post go please?

I wasn't being oversensitive, but you have a tendency to make sweeping statements and slapping people around, so I replied in kind, the temptation was too great. You could have said it more diplomatically such as "And of course DIYers can do electrics as long as they have it checked".