Somaliland is *not* part of Somalia

WolfSong2000

Just a little vent...

I'm sure everyone's been watching the news and is aware of the situation in Somalia - failed state, problems with piracy, terrorism, etc. It's all looking pretty bad right now.

I was watching the news as well, and was really annoyed to see both the BBC and Channel 4 news lumping Somaliland in geographically with Somalia. IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT COUNTRY!!!!

Okay, you're probably thinking right now why you should care....bottom line is while Somalia is a failed state with no infrastructure, no truly legitimate government and serious issues with violence, instability, piracy and terrorism, Somaliland is the opposite.

Somaliland is peaceful, has a multi-party democracy, no problems with piracy or terrorism and despite having no rivers (Somalia has 2) has been able to avoid starvation and drought.

If the UK wants to sort out the problems in Somalia they should be looking to Somaliland for answers. The people share the same langiage, culture and religion, but the countries and the way they operate are fundamentally distinct and it is frustrating to see peaceful and stable Somaliland lumped in with violent and unstable Somalia.

Somaliland is a moderate, forward thinking Islamic country which is very pro-women's rights and education and is actively looking to engage with the western world. I just get so frustrated seeing the UK and the reast of the international community ignore Somaliland and what it has to offer.

I say all of this as a born and bred British person, but Britain really needs to get over its embarassement with regards to colonialism. It happened, it wasn't totally a bad thing and Somaliland for one is proud of its relationship with Britain. I attended a demonstration for Somaliland sovereignty opposite 10 Downing Street on Wednesday - yes, Somaliland flags were being flown, but so were British ones. Somaliland is looking toward Britain for recognition (Britain recognises Somaliland legally, but not politically, as a sovereign nation) and the UK government continually brushes the issue under the table.

But yeah...vent over. It just frustrates me to see these people being ignored because they're basically "too good". They've saved their country, they're peaceful and democratic, not violent and unstable and because of their current success, which they're looking to build upon with recognition, they're being ignored.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

Cool story bro

fluffnutter

If somewhere is lumped in 'geographically' with somewhere else, isn't the point merely that it's in the same area? I.e. not that it's the same ideologically, or politically, or culturally or whatever. TBH, I've not seen the news reports that you refer to, but I do know that Somaliland wasn't mentioned on the R4 bulletins I've listened to.

Perhaps it's a bit like saying Wales, next to England, is blah blah. You're not saying that Wales and England are the same, merely that they're located together. Although why you'd bother is another matter altogether. Having said that, I think you're going to need to present more evidence of how the BBC and C4 are doing a disservice to Somaliland before people get too excited about it.

WolfSong2000

fluffnutter wrote: »

If somewhere is lumped in 'geographically' with somewhere else, isn't the point merely that it's in the same area? I.e. not that it's the same ideologically, or politically, or culturally or whatever. TBH, I've not seen the news reports that you refer to, but I do know that Somaliland wasn't mentioned on the R4 bulletins I've listened to.

Perhaps it's a bit like saying Wales, next to England, is blah blah. You're not saying that Wales and England are the same, merely that they're located together. Although why you'd bother is another matter altogether. Having said that, I think you're going to need to present more evidence of how the BBC and C4 are doing a disservice to Somaliland before people get too excited about it.

I see your point, but the international communuty refuses to see Somaliland as seperate from Somalia...it's a long, contentious issue. Basic breakdown is as follows:

Prior to 1960, what is now Somalia was an Italian colony and what is now Somaliland was a British protectorate. In 1960 both countries became independent, and briefly trialled a failed union to combine the two countries. Somaliland withdrew within weeks and the union was never officially ratified. War broke out between Somaliland and Somalia and lasted until 1991 when Somaliland officially declared itself as independent. In 2001 democratic elections were held in Somaliland which unanimously upheld Somaliland's desire to be an independent country.

The problem is the international community is still holding on to the failed (and never ratified) union and so sees Somaliland as still part of Somalia. The Guardian wrote a newspaper article on wednesday 22nd which mentioned Somaliland only briefly as a "breakaway region of Somalia".

As I laid out in my initial post, Somaliland is totally seperate and no union between Somalia and Somaliland was ever officially ratified. Somaliland has its own passport, currency, government, etc. It meets all the criteria set down by the international community for statehood, yet the international community refuses to recognise this, and Somaliland and its economy is currently damaged by the assumption that it is part and parcel of Somalia - the worst failed state in the world.

The Somaliland people are looking to the British government to officially recognise Somaliland's sovereignty. Legally we do (and I can provide a link to the document if anyone's interested), but politically we refuse to. The media at the moment is not overly interested because a peaceful, stable and democratic country isn't seen as a news story. Except, when this is occuring in an otherwise violent and unstable region, I think it is.

But yeah...it's frustrating to see the international community failing to recognise Somaliland's sovereignty, when this recogntion could aid in stabilising the entire region and battling terrorism and piracy as well as alleviating poverty in central african countries through trade access. The benefits to recognition for both Somaliland, Africa and the international community are almost limitless.

fluffnutter

WolfSong2000 wrote: »

I see your point, but the international communuty refuses to see Somaliland as seperate from Somalia...it's a long, contentious issue.

Aah, sorry, I was unaware of this. Then, yes, this is something worth getting excited about.

ETA: this is probably a bit political for Praise, Vents and Warnings. Why not post it in Discussion Time?

WolfSong2000

fluffnutter wrote: »

Aah, sorry, I was unaware of this. Then, yes, this is something worth getting excited about.

ETA: this is probably a bit political for Praise, Vents and Warnings. Why not post it in Discussion Time?

Yes, it is political, but it was basically just me having a frustrated vent about it all...still, if the mods feel it would be more appropriate in discussion time, I've no objections!

System

i'm confused now.

So is Somaliland part of Somalia or not?

Where do the pirates come from?

Mark_Hewitt

AFAIK Somaliland isn't officially recognised by the UN or the UK. So the BBC cannot refer to it as a country.

brettcta

Somaliland sounds like a really scary theme park

WolfSong2000

goater78 wrote: »

i'm confused now.

So is Somaliland part of Somalia or not?

Where do the pirates come from?

No, Somaliland is a totally seperate, independent nation and has been for at leas the last 20 years (arguably a lot longer). *Legally* Britain recognises Somalilands independence and has done since it became independent in 1960 (it used to be a British protectorate). There is an official document from 1960 which states Britain's support of Somaliland's independence.

The complications arise because Somaliland willingly trialled what turned out to be a failed union with Somalia. The union was never officially ratified, but the international community has chosen to ignore this and is lumping Somaliland - a peaceful, democratic and stable country in with Somalia - the worse failed state in the world!

epsilondraconis

goater78 wrote: »

i'm confused now.

So is Somaliland part of Somalia or not?

Where do the pirates come from?

Penzance...