Why should healthcare be 'free'?

chewmylegoff

adouglasmhor wrote: »

Some benefits are still contribution based.

yeah of course.

contribution based JSA for instance.

but if you just never work, don't pay any NI, and don't have an income, then you receive income related JSA instead.

same with ESA.

same with state pension (because of pension credit topping you up to the minimum income guarantee).

so the only people who do not receive the benefits are those without sufficient NI contributions to claim the (time limited for JSA, ESA) contribution-based version of the benefit who have sufficient other income and assets not to qualify for the income related variant.

to suggest that these represent contribution based benefits only available to those who have paid NI is rather disingenuous when the contribution version is time limited and someone who has never paid in can claim the same benefit with a different word in the title indefinitely.

chewmylegoff

Arg wrote: »

The idea that the NHS will fix you is equally preposterous. The government also try and cheat you out of benefits. A lot of private medicine is just as bad but at least you can order it there and then instead of an NHS GP trying to fob you off until something becomes more serious.

well i disagree, but in any case they don't treat you any differently on the basis of whether you have paid your NI contributions as far as i am aware. if you get run over by a bus, the ambulance doesn't say "sorry no NI, no trip to the hospital".

adouglasmhor

chewmylegoff wrote: »

yeah of course.

contribution based JSA for instance.

but if you just never work, don't pay any NI, and don't have an income, then you receive income related JSA instead.

same with ESA.

same with state pension (because of pension credit topping you up to the minimum income guarantee).

so the only people who do not receive the benefits are those without sufficient NI contributions to claim the (time limited for JSA, ESA) contribution-based version of the benefit who have sufficient other income and assets not to qualify for the income related variant.

to suggest that these represent contribution based benefits only available to those who have paid NI is rather disingenuous when the contribution version is time limited and someone who has never paid in can claim the same benefit with a different word in the title indefinitely.

I think there are still one or two others but may be wrong. Also are the contribution based and the universal always both paid at the same rate?

Masomnia

I'm sure I read somewhere that the NI insurance 'pot' can be used to buy gilts anyway; so even though NI contributions are hypothecated in theory, in practice the government gets round it to use the money however it wants.

olly300

Arg wrote: »

The idea that the NHS will fix you is equally preposterous. The government also try and cheat you out of benefits. A lot of private medicine is just as bad but at least you can order it there and then instead of an NHS GP trying to fob you off until something becomes more serious.

The NHS will fix you if you:
1. Live in the right area,
2. Are middle class enough,
3. Are young enough and not mentally disabled.

As I said before some of what my medical friends and family have said to me over the years clearly indicates if they are going to get a patient who they think has a family who may cause them trouble by raising a complaint they take care.

andy.m_2

There should be a No Claims Bonus on healthcare.
You get an annual audit.

If you didnt require the use then you get a rebate.
If you used and required then you break even.
If you didnt need and used then you get charged.

Obviously those registered disabled or of a pensionable age will receive extra visit credits, those ona course opf treatnment would be exempt from scheduled visits.
This system would clearly require a lot of thought but essentially if you go to the quack everytime you fart funny then why shouldn't you be charged extra?

lostinrates

olly300 wrote: »

The NHS will fix you if you:
1. Live in the right area,
2. Are middle class enough,
3. Are young enough and not mentally disabled.

As I said before some of what my medical friends and family have said to me over the years clearly indicates if they are going to get a patient who they think has a family who may cause them trouble by raising a complaint they take care.

I lived in good areas, not sure if they were the right ones or not, was in my early twenties and have the trappings of 'middle class'. They did not fix me. They did keep talking to me about furture fertility treatment though.....

N1AK

lostinrates wrote: »

was in my early twenties and have the trappings of 'middle class'. They did not fix me.

I've had a similar experience and seen it with others. The NHS is set up to encourage staff to do the minimum possible to meet the standards required and close off the issue; fortunately some staff battle on regardless and try and do more, but it's hardly shocking that so many give up eventually.