Is it possible to fight paid unfair council parking tickets and get money back?

bogiboss

Hello guys,

It was some time ago but still give me headache when I think about it, therefore my last attempt. Is it possible to fight back paid unfair council parking tickets and get my money back for the tickets from about 5-6y old? I still have all the evidence from the case. Wanted to fight back then but lost somehow with bailiffs clamping my car one morning. It try to explain as brief as possible.

First lets get this clear, am I right or not.

Basically I used to live in residential area of where some bays have restrictions only between 8-9AM and 3-4pm. But the bay next to my house had no restriction as the restriction sign has been removed just after we moved in (I saw is lying in the pavement and the hole where it was) and new one was never fitted back in, I suppose its still not but I moved from there 2y ago. So all remaining spaces have had the signs but the only one had not. So since there was no sign I was assuming I can park there with no restrictions at all.

Is this correct at all?

Anyway that was where all this started. I have received 2 or 3 tickets and rang up council to complain.

>>I suppose I was getting the tickets as PA was accustomed to that bay was restricted but the sign was not there any more...!? <<

The advice I was given was very incompetent and incorrect. The lady said not to pay it, to keep the tickets, make photos, evidence and basically to be ready to present all that in court. But of course I have never went to court, neither they, they have send bailiffs instead. I still have some letters, PCN numbers, and all the pictures.
Unlucky my car V5 address was not updated so I did not receive any correspondence from the council. The day I realised that and changed I instantly received letters from bailiffs company. Overall I paid well over 3700 in total (my VW was worth it less than 1k!!) and I felt powerless and devastated. I can still fell the consequences now- finally paid out all my CC only 1y ago!

I went to layer for advice buy she said my only chance to challenge was to to pervade them that I have never seen any tickets on the windscreen - which is pointless as there was maybe about 8-10 or 12 in total. And because I have seen and received them I only had 14 days to appeal. If not appealed in 14 days it is executable and I am considered as 'guilty'.

I still feel today that due to missing sign those tickets should have never been issued at all and I should not pay one penny, but I have paid roughly about 4k in total.

I clearly need some help, maybe someone can tell me what to do, first of all if there is still anything to do (no to late?) and if is possible to get my money back. I was even thinking about finding someone who could actually take it as case and help me with this one but the layers are to expensive and the problem is still have to be paid if nothing recovered.

CAB was also pointless and no one could give me good advice, I would need someone who was good on motoring rules and law not general layer.

I am just so angry that they have taken all that money from me, I could understand if that was my fault but I still feel it was unlawful....


Any kind of help will be much appreciated.
Thanks Guys!

Trebor16

Go to www.pepipoo.com and they should be able to assist you.

bogiboss

Here is a copy of one (following) letter I've sent to them:
(of course the charges have grown between then and when paid, plus some 'new' has been added)

Dear Sir/Madame,

I am writing this letter in order to explain misunderstanding which probably has been
primary reason why I have received Notification of Unpaid Penalty Charge Notices from
Collect Service Limited. There are listed seven unpaid penalties for sum 2375.09£.
I would like to ask you if you can have look on my circumstances as there is four of
them which should not be issued. I have already indicated this with another letter but I did
not send proper evidence at that time so decision was negative. I also heard from one of your
advisers that I should make photos and keep them for future reference which I believe is now.
I need to indicate the fact that I have been not receiving any remainders or letters to
my present address about those unpaid penalties. The reason for that is that since I have
moved to this address I did not realised that I have not changed my V5 document for this car.
I have notified DVLA about change of my address and I have had address changed on my
driving licence but I did not realise that I need to change address for car as well and about the
fact that those are two separate things.
I would like to discuss once again the penalty charge tickets that I have been receiving
when parking on XXXXXX Av./ XXXXX Av.
Reference numbers are: EA45481XXX, EA45665XXX, EA46016XXX and EA46356XXX.
I have already indicated this fact but your respond was negative. I am including photographic
evidence this time and I am hoping that you will realise what I have in mind. My car is
usually parked on the bay where is no any sign of restriction, in any way. As far as I am
concerned, if there is no any other indication, parking is free and everyone has a right to park
the car. There was nothing against the law that my car was parked there, so I am asking how
the Parking Attendant 525 could issue those penalties. I hope the situation can be well seen on
photos.
I do agree with EA45062XXX, EA46331XXX and EA46103XXX as I do not have
any evidence but again I was not aware of them as I have not received any letter or remainder
to this address.
There is also EA45300XXX which I believe was issued during delivery time and as far as I remember car was on loading zone and I was on delivery, so again ticket should not be issued. I could write and discuss those matters earlier but I was not aware of them.
I addition I would like to add that my situation is very difficult at the moment. I am
a sandwich year student doing my placement year. I do have some debts in amount 3500£
and my salary is 11850p.a. which is difficult enough to manage everyday living costs among
with my recent repayments. I do have to ask for your help in this matter, I do agree that I have
to pay EA45062XXX, EA46331XXX and EA46103XXX but I am hoping that you can at least
reduce the amount, obviously I would pay them long time ago if I knew about them.

Please can you consider my difficult situation and dismiss those which should not be issued?

Thanks very much for considering this matter.

If you wish to contact me please send me a letter to above address or email me (...)

give_them_FA

Can you clarify exactly who issued these tickets? Which council was it? If you received none of the paperwork there is a right to make an application to Northampton to make a statutory Declaration which will at least set the amount back to a far smaller figure, as what you describe now has been bumped up by the greedy collection company. Bur pepidoo is generally more suited for council PCN queries.

Generally, unless you can show the PCN was unlawful, paying it extinguishes your right of appeal.

Coupon-mad

Is EA Ealing Council?

If you had appealed you could have probably won at adjudication. Why did you phone up the Council in the first instance and not just read the PCNs and appeal in writing as explained on the PCNs?

And the wrong address for the car compounded the error for you I am afraid as the Notices to Owner, Charge Certs and Orders for Recovery would all have gone to the wrong address (as they HAVE to go to the registered keeper's DVLA stored address). They were your next chance of written appeal and sadly went unanswered by you, long before the bailiff got involved.

You can try asking on pepipoo but this is too little too late I fear. Terrible that you paid this much to a Council for parking in an unsigned bay, when - if you had updated your car details at the DVLA - you would have received all the paperwork and could have appealed and probably won at the earlier time when the PCNs were in play.

hallowitch

if all statutory notices were sent to your previous address you need to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre by phone Tel: 08457 045 007 .
ask them the address on the warrant of execution (if its your previous address) you then need forms TE7 & TE9 for each pcn

if you post on CAG you will get very good advice on how to deal with this problem

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?168-Bailiffs-and-High-Court-Enforcement-Officers#

give_them_FA

As I have said, it is just possible if you make a Stat Dec saying that you never received any of the Notices to Owner that the clock may be set back even though it is a long way out of time. You may have to appear in your local County Court to do it in person, but if you can convince the judge you are honest, as I am sure you are, there is a chance.

This would set the whole process back to Notice to Owner and restore your right of appeal. But you really need to get the specialists on Pepidoo on the case on this one as it's certainly a challenge- though not impossible.

bogiboss

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Is EA Ealing Council?

If you had appealed you could have probably won at adjudication. Why did you phone up the Council in the first instance and not just read the PCNs and appeal in writing as explained on the PCNs?

And the wrong address for the car compounded the error for you I am afraid as the Notices to Owner, Charge Certs and Orders for Recovery would all have gone to the wrong address (as they HAVE to go to the registered keeper's DVLA stored address). They were your next chance of written appeal and sadly went unanswered by you, long before the bailiff got involved.

You can try asking on pepipoo but this is too little too late I fear. Terrible that you paid this much to a Council for parking in an unsigned bay, when - if you had updated your car details at the DVLA - you would have received all the paperwork and could have appealed and probably won at the earlier time when the PCNs were in play.

Hi, thanks very much for your contribution here, yes that was Ealing Council.

Yes of course you must be right, and now I am aware of it, I would read and appeal straight away but back then I must have been so naive that I am right and therefore nothing (bad) is going to happen but of course this parking attendant must have been doing this knowing he should not! I even seen him once taking pictures of the sigh from the other side of the road! (there was no sigh next to the bay my car was parked)

Back then I must have thought that is OK if I only change my driving licence address with DVLA, but now of course I know I have to change all records separate. That was very expensive lesson!

But despite all this my point is that some of that PCN should have not been issued in the first place, therefore they were unlawful. Having them paid is there any chance to get this money back. Assuming the sign is still missing (pretty sure it is) I can take them to the court or something?

I did write to pepipoo few days ago but no answer received as yet.

bogiboss

give_them_FA wrote: »

Can you clarify exactly who issued these tickets? Which council was it? If you received none of the paperwork there is a right to make an application to Northampton to make a statutory Declaration which will at least set the amount back to a far smaller figure, as what you describe now has been bumped up by the greedy collection company. Bur pepidoo is generally more suited for council PCN queries.

Generally, unless you can show the PCN was unlawful, paying it extinguishes your right of appeal.

Hi,
Thanks for your contribution, yes it was Ealing Council. I have not received any letters but I had quite few PCNs on the windscreen of course.

So in order to show that PCNs were unlawful do I need to go to small claim court? I don't even know were to start..

bogiboss

hallowitch wrote: »

if all statutory notices were sent to your previous address you need to contact the Traffic Enforcement Centre by phone Tel: 08457 045 007 .
ask them the address on the warrant of execution (if its your previous address) you then need forms TE7 & TE9 for each pcn

if you post on CAG you will get very good advice on how to deal with this problem

Hi, Thanks for your contribution here,

So seem like they still have all the warrants in the system? So to ask them if they can send me a copy or something?
Are these forms TE7 & TE9 from Traffic Enforcement Centre website or where from?

Thanks!

give_them_FA

You can maybe phone them and ask you to send the forms. It is probably necessary to have a pair of forms for each PCN. You can do it online but I have found their site sometimes doesn't work too well. One is the declaration that you never received the paperwork. The other is the form where you explain why your declaration is being made late. Be as complete as you can. The latter is firstly dealt with by a Court officer, not a judge; but if refused can be appealed to a judge. You can, I believe, appeal in person to a judge at your local County Court. That is probably your best bet if it comes to it. Trying to set it all back to Notice to Owner is the most important thing.

As regards address, the Council get the address from DVLA at a fairly early stage and then don't update it. Therefore, people moving while the matter progresses is not unusual.