ESA Support Group Assessment – HELP!

angelsparkle

Hi guys I really need some help. Last year I was assessed and placed in the support group of ESA (after a long stressful struggle). However I have been sent the form out again and when I called they said I need to do this every 6 months. The form has changed since last time and I’m really worried I’ll be downgraded (even though my health is worse now, not better). I am housebound and completely unable to travel.

What I would like to know from anyone who can help is:

· When u redo the form again do they always then require you to go through the physical assessment again as well?
· Can anyone give me information on how the assessment criteria has changed from Feb last year?
· Has the criteria for being in the support group changed?
· Should I send a GP letter with the form to support me?

I’m really terrified by all this, it was stressful and hard enough to go through all this the first time round. I don’t think I could cope with having to do it every 6 months. I’m so worried.

Thanks for any help you can give xx

rogerblack

They can do the physical assessment again, and will, unless they consider that they hold enough evidence to make it not needed.
The main changes are that people who are unable to walk, but can be assessed as being able to use a wheelchair may not get points for mobility.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - this is the full list of descriptors.
I don't think the support group descriptors changed, other than the mobility ones.

And yes, send all evidence you have, or can get. Including letters from any professionals you are in contact with.
(Take a copy, and send it registered)

uponahill

rogerblack wrote: »

They can do the physical assessment again, and will, unless they consider that they hold enough evidence to make it not needed.
The main changes are that people who are unable to walk, but can be assessed as being able to use a wheelchair may not get points for mobility.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/m-06-11.pdf - this is the full list of descriptors.
I don't think the support group descriptors changed, other than the mobility ones.

And yes, send all evidence you have, or can get. Including letters from any professionals you are in contact with.
(Take a copy, and send it registered)

Thanks Roger

We have discussed this together on another thread.

It's the mobilising thing that gets me. I passed on that originally and was put in the Support Group. Then had another assessment on the new descriptors and failed completely. (TBH, I gave up after that & couldn't face an appeal) I then signed on.

Personally I can't see how many would get the new mobility descriptor, but I have taken on board you earlier comments if I decide to go back on ESA.

It's really a catch all now and with the other new benefit coming up for DLA which apparently is the same, many more will miss out.

I hope you don't mind but I will quote your other post - it might help the OP

Speaking in general, going from the inarguable down.
People with hand, arm,
or spinal problems who could not without 'severe discomfort or pain' wheel
themselves.
Heart/lung conditions that mean they can't do it safely or
without severe breathlessness.

Note that descriptor 1b does _not_ say
'level ground' - therefore it should be taken that you need to be able to wheel
over normal terrain for 50 yards. (the DWP will likely not view it this
way).

Many people, placed into a wheelchair will not be able to
'repeatedly mobilise 50m' - even if they have no physical disability, due to
poor physical condition, or weight.

There is the other issue - the
descriptor says 'with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair, or other
aid if such aid can be reasonably used'.

Wheelchairs are
expensive.
The NHS will only provide one with certain conditions, and may
not, if for example the wheelchair may worsen their condition - people with
arthritis may be advised to keep on their feet as much as possible. (use it or
lose it).

This would argue against reasonableness.
If you can't get a
wheelchair, then it's hard to argue requiring one can be reasonable.
(there
is no funding for wheelchairs for people who are failed under this provision

)

Cpt.Scarlet

This is just one interpretation of the descriptor, personally I don't agree with either of the points it raises, but that doesn't mean they can't be argued. Bottom line until there is Case Law in this area, you take your best shot.

rogerblack

Cpt.Scarlet wrote: »

This is just one interpretation of the descriptor, personally I don't agree with either of the points it raises, but that doesn't mean they can't be argued. Bottom line until there is Case Law in this area, you take your best shot.

Agreed.

In some more depth.
You start out with an ESA claim from various positions.
These vary from the outright fraudulent claim, to someone who is completely paralysed and on a ventilator, unconscious.

The 'best' sort of claim is if you can get ESA through one of the automatic entitlements - for example, having a dangerous communicable disease, or undergoing injectable chemotherapy.

Then come ones where you can supply enough medical evidence to prove you meet enough descriptors, which will avoid the medical.

Then 'easy' claims where you're reliant on the HCP and decision-maker only doing their job.

Now comes the trickier bits - subjective and arguable claims.

'I can only walk X' - this sort of argument you should back up with as much evidence as you can, as it risks the HCP not believing you.

Now, you run into problems.
Your disability doesn't neatly match the descriptors.

At this point, you have several approaches.
Firstly, you should get as much evidence as you can that it does.

The alternative, of looking at the actual legislation or trying to read the descriptors in ways other than the DWP does is risky, unless your sole aim is to be able to claim the assessment rate while the appeal goes on. (which may often take a year)

To do this successfully relies on several things.

Firstly, you may get a tribunal or a decision-maker that 'wants' to see it your way.
Otherwise, you need both an understanding of the words of the law (descriptor), what the DWP guidance is on how to interpret that descriptor, and any caselaw in the area.
http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f19.htm - for example.

If you can't find anyone skilled to assist you, this is a _lot_ of work. There are often competing judgements that bear on a given area, and you need to make an argument why the ones you don't agree with don't apply, or are legally wrong, and why the ones you agree with are right.

This is a 'last ditch' effort, that relies partially on a favourable tribunal willing to listen to your arguments.

In principle, a tribunal rejecting this form of argument may be open to a challenge to the upper tribunal - that is if they simply dismiss the argument in law, rather than disagreeing with one of the reasons it 'sits' on.

For example, if you argue you can't (to take the above example) wheel a wheelchair over unlevel ground as would be found normally (wheelchair ramps, dropped kerbs), and they find that they believe you can, rather than ignoring the argument altogether, you have no grounds to appeal.
(Unless that is, the judgement is so clearly incorrect that 'any reasonable person' would disagree, which is a really high threshold)

uponahill

It sounds to me a nightmare!

It does make me realise that I was right in not appealing the failed ESA assessment.
There is no way that I could do all of that!!!!

melbury

It is a total nightmare; I have been completing my OH's ESA50 form on and off since Friday - I keep having to walk away from it because it is just so tiring.

Having said that, it is much easier being able to download it and type the information in, trouble is I keep going back and changing bits!

I am hoping to finish it off today, get it in the post tomorrow and then wait for the inevitable appointment to come through from ATOS:eek:

Is there a set time limit for receiving ESA before you are sent another form to complete? It all sounds a bit random; some people seem to get them every 6 months, some sooner than that and some every 12 months. Is 12 months the longest time now?

uponahill

melbury wrote: »

It is a total nightmare; I have been completing my OH's ESA50 form on and off since Friday - I keep having to walk away from it because it is just so tiring.

Having said that, it is much easier being able to download it and type the information in, trouble is I keep going back and changing bits!

I am hoping to finish it off today, get it in the post tomorrow and then wait for the inevitable appointment to come through from ATOS:eek:

Is there a set time limit for receiving ESA before you are sent another form to complete? It all sounds a bit random; some people seem to get them every 6 months, some sooner than that and some every 12 months. Is 12 months the longest time now?

I don't know, but I was put in the Support Group for 3 years! However I closed the claim down before the 3 years were up, then submitted a new claim, had another assessment and failed with 0 points!!! Gave up after that and claimed JSA - the easier of the two options available to me - appeal ESA or look for a job!!

rogerblack

uponahill wrote: »

It sounds to me a nightmare!

It does make me realise that I was right in not appealing the failed ESA assessment.
There is no way that I could do all of that!!!!

I perhaps diddn't emphasise enough.

For more 'normal' dissalowances, where you likely do fall into one of the categories, but there has been a mistake in the admin, or by the HCP, it's a lot simpler.
You simply state why you're appealing, and then supply all the evidence you can to the tribunal.
The tribunal then decide.
There is no need to do anything more.

The only cases where it would generally be of much use to do the above would be marginal cases.

Most peoples appeals will be strictly on the facts. 'I can't move from one chair to another' (for example).

rogerblack

melbury wrote: »

Is there a set time limit for receiving ESA before you are sent another form to complete? It all sounds a bit random; some people seem to get them every 6 months, some sooner than that and some every 12 months. Is 12 months the longest time now?

As I understand it, the maximum award length is 3 years.
However, this does not mean that you will be seen every 3 years, it means that the file will be looked at every 3 years - you might not even have to submit another form.

The time till your case is looked at again is set generally by the 'health care professional' that you see.

They give you a 'prognosis' - this is a time when it might be reasonable to look at your case again.

In short - other than for terminal illnesses (whos cases are generally reviewed after 3 years), there is no set time period, and it's the luck of the draw as to what the HCP fills in on your form.

uponahill

rogerblack wrote: »

I perhaps diddn't emphasise enough.

For more 'normal' dissalowances, where you likely do fall into one of the categories, but there has been a mistake in the admin, or by the HCP, it's a lot simpler.
You simply state why you're appealing, and then supply all the evidence you can to the tribunal.
The tribunal then decide.
There is no need to do anything more.

The only cases where it would generally be of much use to do the above would be marginal cases.

Most peoples appeals will be strictly on the facts. 'I can't move from one chair to another' (for example).

Thanks Roger, but mine would be one of the marginal cases.

I don't even know if I could use a wheelchair, never tried. But it is one person's opinion against mine whether I could use one.
I could say I couldn't but the DWP might say I can!
The walking bit is based on factual medical evidence.