Employment Advice needed...

Emmzi

you still haven't told us about the development you have had.

zzzLazyDaisy

The paragraph highlighted in red is fairly standard.

You accepted the post on that basis, and presumably have undertaken CPD at the company's expense since starting? So you are leaving almost immediately after completing the training and well within the two years.

The company is entitled to recover the money.

However - this is important - have you at any time signed something to the effect that the company is entitled to deduct any money owed from your wages. This clause would normally be in your contract, but could be in a separate document. The consent must be given before the debt arises, so if you have not already given written consent it is too late for them to rectify this now.

What does this mean in practice? If they deduct the money owed from your final salary payment, this would be an unlawful deduction. Not only can you can you make a claim to a tribunal for an unlawful deduction from wages, if the tribunal find in your favour (which they must do) the employer is also then barred from recovering the money by any other means (I'd have to find the case law for this, but at the moment I have to ask you to accept that I know what I'm talking about). But it must be a finding by the tribunal - so if you settle the case and they pay the money back but then sue you for it, that doesn't give you the protection.

I know this is jumping ahead, but you are looking to find a way out of your contractual obligations, and if they deal with this by incorrectly stopping the money out of your final salary payment, this could help you.

mariefab

I agree that it didnt need to be signed. I was just wondering whether the employer was relying on ERA 15(1)(a) or 15(1)(b) to enforce the payment the payment (if they weren't deducting it from wages).


If youleave within 2 years of any professional development you will be required torepay a proportion of the costs of the training back.


If this is all they are relying on, in my opinion it isn't enough.
There's no indication of how the costs will be assessed, or how the 'proportion' they mention will be calculated.
In these circumstances you had isufficient information on what you were agreeing to.


Although this was the only letter you ever received, were there other company policies etc. that you had access to intranet, handbook etc. that could have held information on the recoupment of training costs?

Sambucus_Nigra

What training/professional development did you receive?

discogirl78

My training for was Audio and Spirometry training. This was undertaken during my first week of working for the company. At no was not told how much this training was, but have been given a copy of the invoice which was for £930. I also undertook a First Aid at Work Course (£250) and and finally, I attended a Noise Assessment Course for £970, which was originally booked for another member of staff, I was told I was attending. I was at no point told how much the courses course. All the training was undertaken prior to me actually doing the job. I literally had 2 weeks and 3 days of training. (1 week Audio and spiro, 1 week Noise Assessment and 3 days First Aid At Work).

Lazydaisy - even though she has not outlined costs and percentages, there are no limits to what she could claim? I guess I presumed it would be followed up by an Employment Contract.

The whole situtation has got out hand. I would make a contribution to the training costs, if it was a sensible amount and for the training that I had undertaken to do my job carrying out audio and spirometry testing, not just my ex-bosses whim! Which is what the Noise Assessment training and first aid course was!

I really just don't know whether to fight it, pay it or just offer to pay a smaller "proportion" (as someone has suggested), as the letter does not stipulate how much a percentage I should pay.

I am losing sleep over the whole thing!! I just want this whole thing over and done with. I don't have the kind of money she is asking from me.

Also you asked about company handbook etc. My ex-employer only carried out my Induction into the company on the 31 January 2012, a week before me handing in my notice. So this is when I was made aware of Company handbook, etc.

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, so before you handed in your notice, you were made aware of the company handbook. What does it say about repayment of training fees?

Sambucus_Nigra

Are the three courses part of your personal development and career enhancement? As I'd argue that
a - none of those you consider to BE professional development, they are training courses and of no use to you outside of the role in that company - in fact one wasn't even booked for you but you attended at the insistence of your manager when it wasn't even relevant for your role
b - as the percentage was not stipulated in the original letter, even if it was considered 'professional development' they seem to have calculated these at 83% of the total value of the course, which seems a made up figure of which you had not been made aware of prior to any training being carried out, nor were you made aware that this training would be considered 'professional development'. Indeed, it was a surprise when this bill was received as you were under the impression that you had not actually had any 'professional development' during your time at the company.

Not only that, but you would have no money in which to pay this anyway, and nowhere in the agreement does it state that they are able to take deductions out of wages, and as the original wording is vague at best, you dispute any deduction for this training due to you not knowing what it was you were agreeing to in the original letter.

Something like that...

discogirl78

Lazy Daisy - I was unable to gain access to the handbook as I was not in the office the 2 days following my induciton, and prior to me handing in my notice, as my role was out on the road. But it was pointless me reading this after the training had taken place. It would not have changed my decision to leave.

Sambucas Nigra - I had to undertake the Audio and Spiro course to enable me to undertake the role of an Occupational Health Technician. Otherwise, I would not have been able to do the job for which they had employed me. The Noise Assessment course was probably classed as CPD, but this was not booked for me originally and was not in any way related to my role as an OHT. In fact, she carried out one noise assessment since the course on her own, did not tell me about it and not including me in this at any point. So clearly had no intention of this being part of my role. The First Aid course was apparently required because I worked alone and she felt it would be beneficial for me to attend.

Sambucus_Nigra

I appreciate that - but my text would be my argument. That it wasn't professional development in the first place, that it wasn't clear what the agreement referred to, that the percentage was not clear and that there is nothing that says that deductions could be made.

discogirl78

Sambucus Nigra - Thank you so much for your advice, much appreciated. I am writing my letter as we speak!

I honestly can't thank you enough! ALL OF YOU!!

THANK YOU!