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Soapn

Samsaragirl wrote: »

Agree Cosmic dust

This type of thinking epitomises the thinking pattern of the drains on the economy. Have kids, pay for them yourselves- SIMPLES. Old fashioned way!

The OP earns a more than substantail wage.

What is this country coming to.

I actually come onto this board to be shocked, and I am, every time!!!!

Despair, despair, despair

astounding isn't it?
entitlement
entitlement
entitlement

how bout
R E S P O N S I B I L I T I E S

BigAunty

Samsaragirl wrote: »

...

This type of thinking epitomises the thinking pattern of the drains on the economy. Have kids, pay for them yourselves- SIMPLES. Old fashioned way!

The OP earns a more than substantail wage.

What is this country coming to.

I actually come onto this board to be shocked, and I am, every time!!!!

On a personal level, I think tax credits are enormously wasteful and should be scrapped and this I debate on the Discussion Time forum where policy matters should reside.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3800403

On a forum level, the benefits board is a non-judgemental one to give advice to posters on the basis that there is no such thing as a silly question and its the system at fault, not the claimant.

Essentially the OPs household is working a 50 hour week to pay taxes to fund a family who only works 16 hours a week and who may actually have more disposable income than them by the time they've paid council tax, transport to work and a mortgage. It's a system thing.

For example, one of my friends with 3 kids who are a couple work part-time 16 hours in a low paid job and live in social housing and I modelled their income on the Turn2us online benefit calculator. They get full housing benefit and council tax benefit, plus each week they get £231 in tax credits, £47 in child benefit and around £105 in employment income so nearly £383 a week in their hand with no major expenses. They would only be a tenner better off if one of them worked full time as they'd have to start paying housing benefit and council tax.

Does the OP get nearly £1660 disposable income each month after housing and council tax costs? What about by the time he's paid for travel to work and any child care?


The following (from the bold sentence onwards) is an excerpt from a reader on the Guardian comments page which actually demonstrates that currently at certain salaries, it is a waste of time, energy and money to actually work full hours or seek promotion, for example, and people can have a better quality of life, spending more time with their children at no great loss of income.

It's generally around the 25k mark or less and particularly for households with children and in rental accommodation.


http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/tbm/tbmt_2009.pdf


Basically, for a household with three children with earnings under about 25k, what you earn makes almost no difference at all to the money left in your hand after housing costs. Benefits reductions remove everything you earn.

eg Table 1.7a on p100
Couple with 3 children: 2 under 11, 1 aged 11-15 Rent £69.00 pw Council tax £27.00 pw

Earn 100pw have 320pw in hand
Earn 200pw have 326pw in hand
Earn 300pw have 339pw in hand
Earn 400pw have 366pw in hand
Earn 500pw have 396pw in hand

So the couple who go to work four or five days a week get no more money than someone who does sixteen hours a week. The withdrawal is equally harsh if one of the parents moves into employment - earning an extra 400pw of results in benefit withdrawal on nearly all that is earned. Indeed the only way a working parent can gain from obtaining employment is by leaving the household.

There are two classes of household with children in this country:

* Those whose prosperity is largely determined by what they earn.

* Those whose prosperity is largely determined by what they can claim as in-work benefits.

Labour refers to the second group as 'The Poor', but they include almost every two/three child family in the country on the median household income or less.

emsywoo123

Please pop off to DT to discuss rights and wrongs of benefits thanks (again!)

duncan32

Ok, pretty offended by some of the comments on here. I finished University at 22 and have worked for every day since then - apart from hols obviously (currently my job is 45 hours a week). All I have ever claimed is child benefit (hardly a lot!) for our 2 kids and the working tax credit. My wife left school at 16 and has worked every day since, also. Since we had the kids we decided that looking after them was number one priority so she won't take a full time job and claim back nursery fees etc (which would make us a hell of a lot better off if she did), and just wants to work a few hours (from home) to help out. We are not benefit scroungers / workshy. Thanks for the advice from those not quick to judge. I, of course, have a massive issue with just the sort of people some on here seem to have labelled my family as.
Duncan

clearingout

Duncan,
when you post, you open yourself up to opinion - and sometimes that opinion will not be what you were expecting or you won't like it. That's life.

I just wanted to post my perspective, as a single mum who became unexpectedly single a little over 3 years ago when my now ex husband decided the grass was greener elsewhere. I only worked one day a week at that point and was left with considerable marital debt in my name and a South East mortgage that had been obtained on 2 full time wages. My ex declined to help me out at all - he was done with me as far as he was concerned. Due to a number of circumstances, there was very little then that the Law could do to help me in the short term (and it's not great long term either!).

Looking back, I made decisions in marriage which were of benefit to my children but not to myself. I would urge any woman (or indeed, man) in low-paid, part-time work or who is deciding not to work and giving up a decent career to think again. Should the worst happen - and not just having your relationship breakdown but the all too common occurence of a diagnosis of serious illness, serious accident, or the death of your spouse - how will you cope financially? pay the bills? keep the car going? put food on the table? Many, many people in my situation have no option but to fall back, full time, on benefits. Not a good place to be. Tell your wife from someone who has been there to look at how she maximises her income, keeps her hand in at whatever it is she is good at, gets some training, re-trains....anything that will keep her 'safe' in the long term. There are so many things you can't insure against.

kingfisherblue

Excellent post, clearingout. I am on benefits because my marriage broke down after 16 years when my ex decided that he wanted to start a new family elsewhere. I had given up work to care for our severely disabled child. I don't ever regret that decision, as my son's needs have to come first, but I do wonder what my career would have been like by now. Benefits are a safety net for those who need it - and I, for one, am grateful for the help I get from the state. Having said that, I would never have chosen benefits and am in the unenviable position of being the first person in both my family and my ex's family to have to live on benefits. I consider myself fortunate that the welfare state does help families like mine.

BigAunty

Sorry, OP, if I am one of the posters that offended you. I should have posted much succinctly about it only being worth reducing hours to trigger increases in tax credits if your household has employment income below 26k because that the taxation/tax credit/benefit system is in such a mess that households who earn very low sums through employment income cannot actually become better off if they work longer hours ( a system issue, not claimant issue).

duncan32

Ok, I apologise on my part, too. I certainly appreciate the advice all give. I have just become so cross that I work so hard and seem relatively poor compared to a few people my wife and I know who don't work at all from what I can see. That's life, I suppose. On another (but linked) topic, is it true that I am going to lose some tax credit that I already receive (something like £46.00 a month), one of my colleagues told me that this is something that is just coming into play ......:(

Thanks again.

Duncan

BigAunty

Perhaps this info helps?

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCredits/DG_194914

duncan32

Crikey, I like to think I have a brain, but that's surely designed to confuse most. :eek::rotfl:
Thanks anyway, I'll just wait to see what happens!

Duncan