Professional Finance people no better than amateurs

atush

jimjames wrote: »

This was exactly the situation when I got my first mortgage in 1994. The bank adviser couldn't believe/understand why I didnt want to take out such a great product like their endowment and wanted repayment instead.

They did eventually allow me to take out a repayment as I wanted. I think there is also an element of personal responsibility here, too many things are blamed on the person selling not the person buying.

If something is too complicated to understand then ask questions until it is understandable or don't buy at all.

Well he insisted Natwest didn't do repayment any longer, and I said really? Before i walked out the door lol. I think I even called the manager to complain and I think he confirmed 'we aren't offering repayment at this time'.

I could see it was complicated and expensive and had no guarantees- anyone with a brain could? I knew I could invest elsewhere, and did.;)

rockitup

atush wrote: »

Went to see a bank abt a mtg in the 90s (not an IFA) and they told me (natwest) they were only doing endowment mtgs. I said, don't be so stupid, I want a repayment. They said, sorry we aren't doing them, so I walked out the door (forever as I no longer have accts with them- I moved it to the bank who gave me a repayment mtg).

Yet again, a stupid article claiming IFAs are the bad ones for selling endowment mtgs. EVERYONE was back then, I struggled to find repayment ones on good terms. And more of them were sold by tied FAs anyway.

Your (and others) continuous IFA bashing is quite frankly just showing your own lack of knowledge. And no, I am not one nor do I know one.

I also had the same treatment as Atush and Jim James, when I applied with RBS for a mortgage in 1992. I was trying to obtain a PEP mortgage and was told "Endowment only" of course sold by the in-house FA.

As I only had a 3.5% deposit and RBS and a lot of banks I spoke to stipulated a 5% deposit, I had no choice. Took out mortgage paid 2 months endowment premiums and interest payments.... then cancelled the endowment policy. Many angry calls from the in-house FA threatening to withdraw the mortgage. I said "go ahead, house prices still dropping so you have a choice"

Endowment was £87 a month for 25 years, I still took out the PEP followed by ISA to use as repayment vehicle and paid off mortgage a good few years early.

I admit that I am fed up to the back teeth with banks trying to push me into using their in-house FA's. A total waste of time in my opinion as I have done ok over the years without their limited range of shoddy products. But we cannot tar IFA's with the same brush, get a decent IFA maybe recommended by friends or family who offers a good product range and they can help those of us who do not have enough investing savvy.

We basically all have a choice to pay a fee or commission for advice, or to go it alone and take a chance. I took the risk and had damn good results (and luck) but it could just have easily gone the other way.

atush

I am with HSBC premier now (not for my mtg though which is a lifetime tracker so i left it ;-) and they never bother me with sales calls asking me to invest in stuff. All they do is remind me by post abt fixed rate stuff maturing, and once when I forgot my reg saver had matured and I hadn't signed up for another.

Unless I have fraud on a card, all I want from my bank is silence- I can check their latest offers online when i use internet banking.

darkpool

dunstonh wrote: »

This forum appears to be no longer about savings and investments but posting threads that are purely designed to create argument which a small minority get off on.

as opposed to the good old days when people came on here asking about the best way to invest money and everyone chorused "go and see an IFA"

atush

I still say that, to the clueless and intellectually challenged. As should you. But not to most.

Not everyone is cut out for DIY investing, it is clear to see from some of the posts we get.

2010

I must say that in any system that is commission driven there is always the temptation to "advise" what`s the most lucrative for the "adviser" rather than the client

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and some DO.

qpop

2010 wrote: »

I must say that in any system that is commission driven there is always the temptation to "advise" what`s the most lucrative for the "adviser" rather than the client

---

and some DO.

And how about those that have offered pricing structures that don't provide a product bias?

There are firms that have offered these terms for years, that have no financial incentive to offer business with one company over another.

Are you even aware that for a firm to operate as an independent financial adviser it is a regulatory requirement to offer a "fee-based" service and forgo commission?

No, of course you're not aware of that, because you'd far rather ignorantly slate a profession than learn about it.

2010

qpop wrote: »

Are you even aware that for a firm to operate as an independent financial adviser it is a regulatory requirement to offer a "fee-based" service and forgo commission?

No, of course you're not aware of that, because you'd far rather ignorantly slate a profession than learn about it.

Of course I`m aware because as you know this was discussed on the other thread where it was clearly stated a fee-based arrangement turned out to be a massive, unrealistic, £160 an hour.

IFA are living in a dreamwold with such nonsense.
Do they really believe for the very little they do and with no risk to themselves whatsoever that they are worth £160 an hour.

Dream on. :rotfl:

dunstonh

Of course I`m aware because as you know this was discussed on the other thread where it was clearly stated a fee-based arrangement turned out to be a massive, unrealistic, £160 an hour.

You have never used an IFA. You are not aware of what an IFA does or is required to do. You do not know the costs and I am making the assumption you have never run a business as you would understand turnover is not the same as income.

Do they really believe for the very little they do and with no risk to themselves whatsoever that they are worth £160 an hour.

No risk to themselves? That just shows how little you know. IFAs carry more liability for the advice they give than most professions.

brasso

I think part of the problem is that people have an unrealistic understanding of what IFAs offer, or claim to offer. They sell advice and knowledge, and for many people these are valuable commodities. IFAs are not able to predict the future or make guarantees about investment decisions, and nor do they, or should they, claim to.

I've been to see an IFA a couple of times in my life (in my younger days, when I was totally naive about pensions etc), and I also have an acquaintance now who is an IFA. None of these people struck/strike me as being hugely more knowledgeable or insightful than me when it comes to actual investments i.e. choosing funds or equities etc. But it's unrealistic to think that that's what they are there for.

It seems to me that one of the main functions of an IFA is to establish what sort of investor you are, in particular your investment timeframe and risk profile, and then look up this combination of values on a matrix (mental or physical) and identify the investments that fit in and around that intersection. Most people don't have that knowledge, even though it's there if you know where to look.

If you are a reasonably savvy investor, you may not learn a huge amount from an IFA or be very surprised by his/her suggestions. But most people are not savvy investors, or have any interest at all, and are grateful to be steered away from the rocks. So it's a question of expectations. The person complaining about paying £160 an hour forgets that this may well be a typical day's profit (or loss) for a modest investment fund, and could well be the best investment a totally naive investor ever makes -- if the alternative is to listen to the bloke in the pub who insists that the only investment worth making is gold or oil or leaving it in the building society.

My father took me to task recently for paying a garage for some routine work on my car that he said I could have done myself. True, but I really didn't want to spend a weekend in the snow, changing tyres and fiddling with oil sumps with frozen hands. For me that was money well spent. It's horses for courses.