Advice on boilers please: Worcester vs Vaillant vs Baxi

katejo

olly300 wrote: »

I have a Vaillant which has been in since 2005 and isn't a model they make any more. It's been reliable and hasn't broken down yet.

OP I would do a search on this forum as you will generally find people with Worcester or Vaillant boilers are happy with them. I also suggest you always go on the recommendation of a tradesmen you know and trust as even though he doesn't do installations he's serviced a lot of boilers and clearly wants your repeat yearly custom.

I have a Vaillant which has been here for about 9 years (3 years when I bought the house). I haven't had any problems with it at all and it is far superior to the boiler in my old flat. It has had an annual service and the engineer who last checked it said that it was in good working order. I can't comment on the worcester or Baxi.

lee_w

personally if it was me i'd go for the vaillant ecotec plus, or worcs junior, si or cdi. customer service for worcs is brilliant

the latest baxi's, netatec and duotec have had alot of problems, mainly the gas valve but hopefully this will be resolved soon.

ideal make a logic + which comes with a 5 year warreny and can be picked up at a good price.

as for main, i thought they only made the multipoint now which is a water heater, but may be wrong

rustyboy21

keithgillyon wrote: »

yet another idiot that hasn't got a clue what he is talking about,

i take great exception to being called a jobsworth engineer,

yes there are some bad installers, but most of us take great pride in our work & providing the boiler is installed correctly then there isn't much else that can go wrong,

there are a great deal of differences between the white boxes that heat your rooms if they are all the same why haven't you got a baxi, potterton, main, halstead instead of a wb ??? because you went for reliability & the fact that in 3 years you haven't had a prob with it.

most engineers will have their prefered make & yes cost is an issue to some people but most would say that they would rather spend a little bit more to get a boiler that isn't gonna fall to pieces & cost them a fortune in repair costs,

you cannot compaire rememha to baxi, potterton or main yes they are now owed by the same co but that doesn't mean that they are all the same boiler re-badged, far far from it which you would know if you had the slightest idea of what you were talking about.

I dont sell boilers, so my expertise in them is minor.

However I do employ myself for my business, 4 fully registered, fully qualified gas safe engineers. Even though I pay their wages and they are supposed to be all colleagues, They still slate each others work aand blame each other if things go wrong.

Before I started my own business, I worked for another company with a similar set up. The same thing happened there. I speak to colleagues who also own their own similar businesses and they all have problems with their own engineers

Subsequently, I find that my comment '' jobsworth engineer'' very apt.

The reason I have a WB boiler is due to my friend who also has a business, did a deal with me, for a fireplace I had knocking around for 3 years. He supplied fitted the boiler FOC and I fitted a fireplace FOC for him. I didn't buy the fireplace I was given it by a supplier for free display.

OP and any other people looking at purchasing a new boiler, please take note that Most CH engineers will recommend a certain make of boiler. Their response to you when you ask why is normally '' Best on the market, nothing ever goes wrong with them''

What they don't tell you is that behind the scenes, companies like WB, Baxi, Remeha all sign engineers up to Reward programmes. They get points for each boiler they purchase and register. As Bruce Forsyth used to say '' what do points make? Prizes ''

Quite a few years ago, I was a baxi display centre. I was sent all marketing leads from when you the customer ring up for a brochure. I was on a reward scheme, at that time, it was when they used to make fires and back boiler renewal firefronts. In 6 months, I earned enough points to livery my shop window, buy 4 sets of commercial tools, livery 2 vans with co logo, got an american fridge freezer and had a 7 day break to Portugal Free of Charge !

Late last year, I was shown a video of Baxi's sales conference in the January of last year. They showed the sales force and some invited guests the launch of a new boiler codenamed Lunar 4. I think it is called the new neta-tec boiler, but could be wrong there. At this presentation, the CEO of Baxi UK stated that there was one boiler, but it would be branded over the whole company profile, i.e Remeha,baxi,main and Potterton. They said Push the Baxi and remeha one as we make more Margin ! They also launched the new bonus scheme for installers, link will be given below.

So as I have said above, Engineers will sell you what is worthwhile to THEM, not YOU. Hence my comment They are all the same mostly, Take what you are told with a pinch of salt, take onboard more how you feel about the installer themselves. You can tie yourself up in total confusion and gobbledeegook, if you take on board everything you are told.

keithgillyon, which scheme are you on? Got any freebies yet?

http://www.works2gether.co.uk/

http://www.remehaheating.co.uk/archives/remeha-launches-glittering-new-loyalty-scheme-for-domestic-heating-installers/

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/installer/events-promos/cash-back-offers read the terms and conditions on this one !

http://www.vaillant.co.uk/installers/advance-loyalty-scheme/

I will stop now, but each manufacturer is at it , especially with one off installers, which you will all be dealing with.

PS. Just found out you are a Remeha boy !

southcoastrgi

firstly i think your attitude stinks, you may sell or recommend what is best for you (freebi's, cash back etc), but we are not all like you, some of us put our customers & our reputation first & will recommend what is best for our customers & not what is best for us & it is companies like yours that give us all a bad name with householders.

i was at a focus meeting last night for baxi with 12 other engineers,

basically they wanted to know why we weren't fitting baxi boilers & yes we were asked whether getting freebi's were important & would make us use & recommend a paticular make of boiler,

all of us there were independant engineers & the three brands that were meantioned that were fitted & recommended on a reg basis were (in no particular order) remeha, wb & vaiilent, we were then asked to name the top 5 & the bottom 5 manifacturers, baxi were in the middle,

but the thing that came out of it was that top of the list was reliability, a few freebi's was nice but it didn't effect which boiler to recommend,

we all agreed that we only get paid to do the job once so we didn't want to keep going back within the warrentee period to fix something for free,

for example i wouldn't fit a halstead/glen dimplex if they gave it to me for free, i'd keep it in the box & take it straight down the scrap yard because they really aren't worth the hassle of keeping having to fix them & lose my customers faith in me,

yes i am in the remeha works scheme but that has no bearing on me recommending them, if the build quality & realibility went down hill i would stop fitting them,

i think if your engineers can't accept their own responsibility for their own mistakes it may be time to find some new engineers.

rustyboy21

keithgillyon wrote: »

i think if your engineers can't accept their own responsibility for their own mistakes it may be time to find some new engineers

They seem to be accepting their own mistakes a little better now and slowly but surely keeping their mouths shut, afetr changing their terms and conditions of employment a little while ago and stating they would get a £25 deduction from their year end bonus, for every !!!! up or bad statement made about either a fellow colleague,product or installation.

Seems to be running better now !:rotfl:

rustyboy21

keithgillyon wrote: »

firstly i think your attitude stinks, you may sell or recommend what is best for you (freebi's, cash back etc), but we are not all like you, some of us put our customers & our reputation first & will recommend what is best for our customers & not what is best for us & it is companies like yours that give us all a bad name with householders.

Missed this quote last night, was rather tired after a busy day at work.

The reason why you think this is because I have let people know what is actually happening when they ask an engineer to recommend a boiler, there is always a financial reason behind it and you don't like it.


As already stated, I don't sell boilers, so my technical experience of them is limited, but have been in the gas appliance industry for 24 years, so do know what engineers are like, I also think that the majority of consumers also have the view I do, after meeting some of the engineers which fit my description.

Just to let you know, Gas and electric fire manufacturers do not have the vast amount of profit, that boiler manufacturers do, so no incentives run to buy their products. That is why I am very impartial in my offerings. Everything has pros and cons, nothing is perfect. I saw a baxi rep the other day, haven't seen in years. Said to him'' bloody hell you have got bigger'' he said '' No wonder this is the twelfth breakfast morning I have done this month and am sick of doing curry nights to get installers on board'' That's just one thing they do, they offer nights out and weekends away to some, rugby and football events to others. Baxi have boxes at all major Premier league grounds to entertain customers. They have race meetings organised for entertaining, one boiler co took 60 engineers to Amsterdam fr the weekend not so long ago. To a boiler co, the engineer is their self employed salesperson.

Who is paying for this? The consumer.

It is heartening to see you have admitted to being on Remeha's reward scheme. I don't have an issue with you personally. You do seem to give decent advice on here, unlike some engineers, who confuse posters even more than they were already. It's just if someone tries to bite me, I will bite back. My way is to tell the truth on what goes on behind the scenes.

Remeha is a good company. never heard much bad about their boilers. Just a shame they bought Baxi. If they leave the leaders in charge, they will not be as good in a few years. Everything will be cheapened. Also if they have as much problem with heateam as everyone else has had over the years, it will make the product less attractive.

Consumers, Boiler manufacturers spend Millions on freebies and incentives each year, to persuade installers to fit their brand. If you are a one off installer, freebies and cash back offers will bring you on board. One engineer I know over in North wales, goes on week long cruises approx every 10 weeks. He has a shop, but it is there purely to take appointments. His sons fill in when he is away. There is a lot of money in them there white boxes, either profit or what you can get from pushing them. Don't let an engineer tell you different.

Overall, my posts on this thread are purely to show that you will be persuaded to go for this boiler over that boiler, by each engineer you ask for a quote. Don't get bogged down, go with your gut instinct of an engineer. If they do their job properly, you will have no problems in the future.

hartcjhart

SShar

spiddy100 wrote: »

We currently have an old Gloworm gas boiler which is on its last legs so we are looking to replace it. We've had two engineers in to quote, both came highly recommended, both seemed to know their stuff.

The engineer who does our yearly service recommended getting a Worcester, but he doesn't do installations so I've had to go elsewhere.

The first guy recommended a "Baxi HE condensing boiler", supplied and fitted for £1360. On my request he also quoted us for Worcester Greenstar at an extra cost of £230 (a little under 20% of the total cost for the Baxi installation).

The second guy has recommended "a Vaillant ecotec plus 4/28 K/Watt" or a "Worcester Bosch 24 K/watt (80000 BTU output) condensing boiler". His quote is £1650 for supply and installation,whether because of the boilers he's chosen or a higher rate for the labour I am not sure.

This is all the information I have at present. Is there anyone in the trade on here who can give me any high-level advice, such as "Don't touch x with a bargepole" or "y are always reliant boilers"? I can of course phone both the engineers and find out exactly which model of boiler they are recommending, and then run some comparisons/read reviews etc - is that overthinking things?

Thanks for any advice.

Hi there Spiddy,

I'd recommend the Vaillant personally, I've had mine for years and never had a problem with it. I think it's best you get a few fixed quotes for each and then compare them all to see what's on offer - bear in mind the cheapest won't always be the best option.

Best of luck!