Economy 7 start times. Help please.

tisonlyme_2

Hi. Any help on the following would be greatly appreciated.

We had an Economy 7 electric meter fitted. This was fitted in 1998. We set up all possible appliances to run at the most efficient times (see below) and made sure we heated our water and took showers before the morning cut off time. Laundry was also done at these times.

On November 9th last year (2006) British Gas came and changed our meter to a newer type. We were told at the time that the meters and times they ran were exactly the same.

We recently received our first quarters bill since the new meter was installed and discovered to our horror that our day time consumption had increased by nearly 50%. Our night time consumption had dropped accordingly.

After a thorough investigation by us we find that the new meter is working at different times to the old meter:
Old meter night rate 00:00 to 01:00am and then 02:00am until 08:00am
New meter night rate 00:00 to 07:00am

We telephoned British Gas for help and the customer service rep said he had never heard of the rates we were on with the old meter !
He has passed this on to another department and told us they will contact us within 5 days. He also said there is nothing we can do to change the meter back to the old rate system.

Unfortunately we can find no record of agreement to the original times and to be honest I don't think there was ever anything written down.
Can anyone with the exact knowledge please confirm that Economy 7 meters were able to operate on the times we originally had and that British Gas ran these rates ? Also if anywhere there is written evidence of this. I have searched through google and can find nothing.

I obviously want to try and get some compensation from British Gas and would like to have the full facts before whichever British gas department it is rings me back.

Many thanks in advance for any help given.

dag_2

Can anyone with the exact knowledge please confirm that Economy 7 meters were able to operate on the times we originally had and that British Gas ran these rates ?

I don't have exact knowledge but I used to live in a flat with Economy 7 - I've since moved to a flat that has a four-rate meter.

When I tried to find out when the economy 7 times were, I was told that it wasn't fixed for all customers. They told me told me that the start and end times are deliberately staggered from one house to another, to avoid creating power surges caused by everyone turning their overnight heating systems on at the same time.

They said you would always get seven hours at night rate, but it was impossible to get them to put anything in writing about the start and end times, or even verbally acknowledge them.

The only way to find out when it switched over was to check the meter itself. That doesn't mean you have to sit and watch it for hours and wait for it to switch - but one day, you check it at 6am to make sure it's still on night, then you check it at 10am to make sure it's on day. The next day, you check it at some point between these two times, to find out whether it's on night or day. If it's still on night, you check it later the same day, but still before 10am - and if it's on day, you check it at an earlier time the following day. You keep on doing this until you've narrowed it down to a few minutes, at which point it's realistically possible to watch it for those few minutes, to pin down the switch-over to the second.

Now it's unfortunate that the timings changed when the meter changed. I'm not sure whether they keep a record of what timings everyone is on, but I doubt it - and if they don't, then I don't see how they can ensure that any new meter is set to the same switching times as the old meter.

I'm surprised that your old meter split the seven hours, though - in my experience, they've only ever given one continuous seven-hour night-phase, then a continuous 17 hours day rate.

But can your average Joe be expected to know all this? Not in my opinion. If your local electricity distributor had explained all this, then clearly there wouldn't have been a problem - assuming that my own analysis of Economy 7 is right!

So I don't know, but I think you might have a claim. Keep us informed, thanks.

irnbru_2

dag wrote:

I'm surprised that your old meter split the seven hours, though - in my experience, they've only ever given one continuous seven-hour night-phase, then a continuous 17 hours day rate.

Agreed.

OP, do you have a mechanical clock or a radio tele-switch which detemines when the E7 period occurs?

tisonlyme wrote:

I obviously want to try and get some compensation from British Gas

I think British Gas are fulfilling your contract by giving you 7Hrs of cheaper electricty.

Do you have electric storage heaters?

tisonlyme_2

Thanks for the replies, appreciated.
The original clock I am pretty sure was radio tele-switch and I presume the new one is the same. We certainly never had to change anything when daylight saving times came.
The original meter one could hear click over when the night/day rate kicked in. The meter is situated in a cupboard in our front room so we were very aware of the on/off times.
The times I gave in the first post were definitely correct. I remember having a conversation with the guy who installed the original meter. It was decided then that those times were the best for us because of our circumstances.

Why wouldn't British Gas compensate ? They have effectively changed my circumstances without notifying me culminating in my electric consumption and therefore charge increasing by a considerable amount (for us).
If I had known about the new times I would have changed timers and consumption accordingly.
Also if they check their records they will be able to see the % increase night to day since the new meter was installed against the average over the last 8 years.

No, we don't have storage heaters.

Many thanks again for your help.

tripled

Unfortunately they don't publish E7 times, they will give you guidlines of when it should come on, but certainly nothing in writing. Part of the problem is E7 times vary across the country with the times traditionally being set by the local electricity board, even after deregulation. Sometimes the same electricity board have several different timing cycles. The old mechanical meters can also get out of synch as well. With the unbundling of the meters, it now means BG can get a company such as Siemens or United Utilities to take over the metering instead of the local board, so this may be a reason why some meters have different timings on when replaced.

As to the compensation request, they aren't obliged to give you a time you want, however if they specifically told you the times wouldn't change and you are now out of pocket to them as a result it would seem reasonable they should write the difference off this bill, although you won't get anything off future bills.

I think your best option would be to compromise by getting them to rebill that period on the standard tariff and maybe chuck in an extra tenner or so for goodwill. You would almost certainly need to get a manager to authorise this. If they won't or you're not happy with that you may need to speak to energywatch and seek their advice.

Also I wouldn't hold your breathe on the callback. Unless the agent has promised themselves or their manager will call you, that timescale is the one usually given for 'frontline support' callbacks. Firstly they wouldn't actually do anything (isn't in their remit) and secondly they seldomn make the calls sent to them anyway (although this should improve soon as energywatch have taken an interest).

In future if anyone has been playing with your meter always check it!

blisteringblue

We have E7 and ours comes on at the following times :

10:32pm - 11pm (odd time and good for nothing)
12:30am - 7:00am ish

Storage heaters are the pits though, we are installing gas central heating this year though.