Greek Rioters

AndyGuil

RUN_RABBIT_RUN wrote: »

again, its their politicians that got them into this mess

the peoples main weapon against politicians in a democracy is to vote them out, the problem here is that whoever they vote in will have to do literally the exact same thing that is being dictated by brussels

i tend to agree with graham, they are angry and they are expressing it

but they're just making things worse. theyd actually be far better off swallowing it and getting on with trying to sort their mess out but i fear this situation isnt going to go away anytime soon

When the problem does go it will be ours. The markets will turn on Italy and Spain. The issues this will cause to Europe including the UK will be monumental.

Puddleglum

Would the problem disappear if the Greeks stopped protesting and pliantly accepted the measures?

IronWolf

I have little sympathy for the Greeks.

But I do wonder how I would react to a blatant attack on sovereignty, and a government seemingly cannibalising my country to stay in a currency that is fundamentally flawed

wellused

I think that what the Greek people want or definitely what the rioters want is for Greece to default and for the country to go bust the same way as Argentina and Iceland did, they don't want to pay their debt off and they definitely don't want any more debt to pay off. The Greek government want the opposite to this, and the rest of the Eurozone country's want to save the Eurozone no matter what Greece wants. Britain and for that matter the rest of the world wants the Eurozone to sort its affairs out with as little detriment to us as possible.

ILW

Puddleglum wrote: »

Would the problem disappear if the Greeks stopped protesting and pliantly accepted the measures?

No, but I cannot see that rioting is going to improve matters. Just cost the country even more money (which they have not got).

ILW

wellused wrote: »

I think that what the Greek people want or definitely what the rioters want is for Greece to default and for the country to go bust the same way as Argentina and Iceland did, they don't want to pay their debt off and they definitely don't want any more debt to pay off. The Greek government want the opposite to this, and the rest of the Eurozone country's want to save the Eurozone no matter what Greece wants. Britain and for that matter the rest of the world wants the Eurozone to sort its affairs out with as little detriment to us as possible.

If the country did default and go bust, surely the cuts would be even worse. Possibly 100% - the whole public sector would not get paid. at all.

wellused

Yes the cuts would be worse but for those who face unemployment or school closures or cuts in services the result wouldn't be any worse than they have or face now, but by being given more debt to pay off on top of the debt that they already can't pay off seems like an interminable sentence, isn't this why people opt for voluntary bankruptcy?

ILW

wellused wrote: »

Yes the cuts would be worse but for those who face unemployment or school closures or cuts in services the result wouldn't be any worse than they have or face now, but by being given more debt to pay off on top of the debt that they already can't pay off seems like an interminable sentence, isn't this why people opt for voluntary bankruptcy?

In the case of an individual bankruptcy, the state will generally pay day to day living expenses. If the state goes bust and you are a public service employee, there is no state money to pay either wages or benefits.

mcfisco

In the case of an individual bankruptcy, the state will generally pay day to day living expenses. If the state goes bust and you are a public service employee, there is no state money to pay either wages or benefits.

Some in Greece will already be looking at the Argentinian model - for others it'll take longer.
Eventually they will realise that austerity isn't working and they'll default, in the mean-time things will get a lot worse until it dawns on them that spending cuts don't breed growth and they need growth as long as everyone wants to pursue it.
Argentina had years of austerity without any improvement and they were forced to register the largest sovereign default in history.
They then went on spending spree and grew their economy allowing them to pay off the IMF loan

They were in the top 3 fastest growing economies last year

CLAPTON

The trioka offer nothing except austerity (deflation, negative growth and no timescale for improvement)


if the greeks pull out of the euro, default on their debts and re-adopt their own currrency, then they have very realistic opportunity to stabalise their economy and have some hope for economic growth in the not too distance future