Salary negotiation help - grade points

slig

I'm applying for jobs in a sector where a position is allocated a grade, and then each grade has salary points that you progress through each year. In my experience they generally appoint on the first grade point, but has anyone got any tips on negotiating to be put on a higher grade point?

I have a couple of interviews coming up, and the starting salary for both (and many of the others I'm applying for) is slightly lower than I ideally need to cover my costs.

The jobs I'm applying for are in London, and my previous (non London) salary plus London weighting is lower than the starting salaries offered. I feel like it would be valid to ask for my previous salary plus London weighting, but I have been working and travelling overseas for the past 18 months. I feel like this negates my argument somewhat. Should I just be grateful if I'm lucky enough to be offered something and take what I'm given, or do I have a valid argument to ask to be put on a higher grade point?

Hope this makes sense - let me know if I need to clarify anything.

LadyMissA

I have always worked in London and never for 'London weighting', just a salary.

slig

I think it's a public sector thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_weighting. Presumably with the private sector a salary in London would still be slightly higher than an equivalent salary outside of London?

Deep_In_Debt

I work in London and don't get London weighting.

hcb42

all you can do is ask for it and justify why..

caeler

Sounds like job evaluation to me. The job will be graded rather than the individual, I don't believe there is much scope to jump up the spinal points on the grade but I may be wrong as I've not been trained in JE. Here's Unite Union's guide to Hays: http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/HaySystem.pdf Here is Unison's: http://www.unison.org.uk/acrobat/B1912.pdf

Please note both offer a skewed view but still provide very useful information about job evaluation.

caeler

Also, just to add on A4C NHS grades, there are set criteria and circumstances on when spinal points can be jumped, I'm not sure if other JE's have this option but if you can find out more, that could be your negotiation space.

London Weighting has an interesting history, but basically since 2007 nobody has been responsible for reviewing it plus it isn't linked to National Joint Council awards. It was also only ever intended to be a small group in society (teachers, etc) so its use has differed in recent years. I think your better to want to be paid for the market rate for the role and for your skills and expertise, living and working in London has nothing to do with IMHO.

Savvy_Sue

slig wrote: »

and the starting salary for both (and many of the others I'm applying for) is slightly lower than I ideally need to cover my costs.

The jobs I'm applying for are in London, and my previous (non London) salary plus London weighting is lower than the starting salaries offered. I feel like it would be valid to ask for my previous salary plus London weighting, but I have been working and travelling overseas for the past 18 months. I feel like this negates my argument somewhat. Should I just be grateful if I'm lucky enough to be offered something and take what I'm given, or do I have a valid argument to ask to be put on a higher grade point?

The bits I've highlighted: I don't mean to be unsympathetic, but why do you think that your employer will care about your ideal needs, and what your previous salary was? And no, neither of THOSE come anywhere close to a valid argument for being put on a higher grade point.

The job has a grade: in other words, the employer has worked out what they want the person who does that job to be capable of, and what a person fulfilling the minimum requirements to do that job is 'worth'.

If you don't want to do the job for that salary, they'll probably be able to find several others who will.

You can ASK whether anyone is ever started above the minimum, and you can ask whether

your x years of relevant previous experience /
your fluent knowledge of 5 foreign languages which are spoken by service users /
your astonishingly high levels of productivity evidenced in previous employment /
complete your own USP here

might enable them to start you higher up, but I don't think it will be an easy argument to make.

gettingready

OK, I have done it.

I moved from AfC band 5 to AfC band 6 (and then to AfC 7) so not just within a scale (which had about 5 or 7 points within, cant remember now) but whole grades.

But this is because of what Sue has listed above, I had very valid arguments, lots of experience/better then others qualifications/accreditations etc etc - they wanted me to start with them (or to stay LOL) , I was valuable enough to be in a position to negotiate. Even while moving workplace (different hospitals) what they knew about me was worth them offering me more than they would someone else.

So all really depends on what you can offer, simple

silvercar

Often the employer will have made the decision to appoint you and will put you on a higher grade if you can justify it.

An argument I would use is that you have a couple of years experience that would have moved you up the point scale if you had been with the new firm, so the fact you gained the experience in a different firm shouldn't stop you from having those experience points.

slig

Thanks - I do have four years of experience at the same level of role in the same type of oganisation in the UK, plus experience in the industry overseas, and I have a degree in a relevant subject and a masters whereas the jobs generally require A-Levels, preferably a degree. So I guess if I'm brave enough I'll use that angle. Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm 99% positive I won't be brave enough to mention it, if I am lucky enough to get something.

Just to say, the job adverts always say, for example, salary: £23,500 to £26,500. Which gives the impression that there is flexibility - if it said salary: £23,500 I wouldn't bother even think of asking for more.