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It's good to see this kind of poisonous conversation (to both sides of the fence) is continuing in earnest on these forums.I am an IFA, but nothing I say on this forum constitutes financial advice. Always draw your own conclusions and always do your own research.0
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It's good to see this kind of poisonous conversation (to both sides of the fence) is continuing in earnest on these forums.
it's always good having another IFA in the forum!
perhaps you could clarify why an investment of 70k grows to 81.5k over 15 years when a 4% growth is assumed?
is the missing 3% annual return due to fees?0 -
it's always good having another IFA in the forum!
perhaps you could clarify why an investment of 70k grows to 81.5k over 15 years when a 4% growth is assumed?
is the missing 3% annual return due to fees?
For all the rubbish you spout, you suggest very little by way of alternative.
What do you suggest? A small, focused portfolio of blue-chip shares that even an idiot would struggle to get wrong?
Fine idea, sir!
...let's just hope you didn't add Tesco to it at the turn of the year:
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?code=cotn:TSCO.L&it=le
BUT blue chip shares are all safe and DIY investors are unlikely to make that kind of mistake!
What about BP? Or any one of hundreds of other examples, such as any bank in 2008, or 2011 for that matter. What about the
private investor bond-holders of the Irish banks?
Let me guess, the investment analysis teams at the fund-houses just spend their days drinking champagne, and the returns (after all charges and commissions) on the total return charts of OEICs, UTs, and ITs are all imagined.
The painfully inaccurate picture that you paint of the world of investments is both poisonous to the general discussion on here, and dangerous (in the sense that you so happily gloss over the risks of individual investments).I am an IFA, but nothing I say on this forum constitutes financial advice. Always draw your own conclusions and always do your own research.0 -
For all the rubbish you spout, you suggest very little by way of alternative.
What do you suggest? A small, focused portfolio of blue-chip shares that even an idiot would struggle to get wrong?
Fine idea, sir!
...let's just hope you didn't add Tesco to it at the turn of the year:
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/detail?code=cotn:TSCO.L&it=le
BUT blue chip shares are all safe and DIY investors are unlikely to make that kind of mistake!
What about BP? Or any one of hundreds of other examples, such as any bank in 2008, or 2011 for that matter. What about the
private investor bond-holders of the Irish banks?
Let me guess, the investment analysis teams at the fund-houses just spend their days drinking champagne, and the returns (after all charges and commissions) on the total return charts of OEICs, UTs, and ITs are all imagined.
The painfully inaccurate picture that you paint of the world of investments is both poisonous to the general discussion on here, and dangerous (in the sense that you so happily gloss over the risks of individual investments).
what about the 3% annual charges?
so are you saying none of the big fund managers had shares in tesco/ BP/ banks before they had problems?0 -
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3788445
"Thanks. All this is making sense. I've had a closer look at the illustration, and to be honest, I'm disappointed. Their assumed value after 15yrs at a growth of 4% is less than I could earn fixing it for just 5 years with the Halifax even after tax is taken off.
I realise 4% might be considered conservative, but really, when I think about the growth that would be required to pay for the fees and offer the same return, my mind boggles. In short, for an investment of £70k at 4% I'd get back £81,500 after 15 years. When, really a clean (without charges) 4% growth yoy would be £126,000. Thats nearly £45k in charges? They'd be making four times as much as I am. Am I missing something here (maybe a few marbles?). And, assuming a higher growth level, they'd be taking a higher charge."
Talk about taking 2 plus 2 and coming out with 22. Can you not represent things correctly or do you do it on purpose?I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.0 -
Talk about taking 2 plus 2 and coming out with 22. Can you not represent things correctly or do you do it on purpose?
ok, i will spell it out for you
1.01^15 = 1.16
1.16 * 70 = 81.2k (near enough 81.5k)
so the illustration given to the investor assumed 4% return. yet she only gets a 1% return. where did the missing 3% go?0 -
what about the 3% annual charges?
so are you saying none of the big fund managers had shares in tesco/ BP/ banks before they had problems?
It's good to see you've addressed at least one of my points, rather than ignoring all of them.
Yes, the fund managers will have held Tesco, BP, et al. As a small holding amongst many others. Even a "conviction" portfolio is going to struggle to hold more than 5% in a single share. A wipe-out of 1/20th of a fund is far less damaging than 1/5th of a portfolio.
A private investor with £20k to invest *could* hold 20 individual companies; the trading charges would be troublesome, and what about the time value of monitoring those 20 companies; ensuring the balance sheets are up to scratch, watching for RNS releases, keeping abreast of the industry they operate within.
Of the 3% "total" (which is certainly on the high end, but then Monevator or wherever else you've picked the figures from isn't likely to point people towards average charges as it doesn't fit their agenda) typically 0.5-1% will go to the IFA. The platform provider and fund management will share the next 1% or so and the rest go to the market makers and other intermediaries by way of trading charges and spread. Similar issues with private investment, except that these charges are magnified due to the scale.I am an IFA, but nothing I say on this forum constitutes financial advice. Always draw your own conclusions and always do your own research.0 -
Yes, the fund managers will have held Tesco, BP, et al. As a small holding amongst many others. Even a "conviction" portfolio is going to struggle to hold more than 5% in a single share. A wipe-out of 1/20th of a fund is far less damaging than 1/5th of a portfolio.
Of the 3% "total" (which is certainly on the high end, but then Monevator or wherever else you've picked the figures from isn't likely to point people towards average charges as it doesn't fit their agenda) typically 0.5-1% will go to the IFA. The platform provider and fund management will share the next 1% or so and the rest go to the market makers and other intermediaries by way of trading charges and spread. Similar issues with private investment, except that these charges are magnified due to the scale.
not monevator, just someone posting here with her experiences. but i'm glad you accept that she is paying 3% annual fees.
where did i say to invest 20% of your worth in one share?0 -
not monevator, just someone posting here with her experiences. but i'm glad you accept that she is paying 3% annual fees.
where did i say to invest 20% of your worth in one share?
I'm keen to hear your investment strategy, please enlighten us.I am an IFA, but nothing I say on this forum constitutes financial advice. Always draw your own conclusions and always do your own research.0
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