Taylor Wimpey House Issues

DVardysShadow

jkdt0077 wrote: »

DVardysShadow, sorry maybe I have not been totally clear. Both engineers agree that the cause of the boiler not working was down to the initial leak. The leak caused the system to empty, causing the pressure in the system to drop. The pump, however, continued running causing the impeller to overheat and eventually broke. Now, when the boiler is turned on it overheats and cuts out because there is no circulation from the pump. Does this make sense?

So, both engineers agree that the leak was the cause of the system not working.. the question is how could the leak have happened in the first place? It seems to me that this has to be due to either poor installation or poor quality equipment - and the, now unbiased (because they are not getting the job, they ONLY work through our insurance company - we can't even contact them without going through our insurance company who have said that they won't carry out the work as it's not covered under our policy), Carillion engineer has offered the only other explanation that the incorrect piping could have caused a blockage in the system, and consequently lead to the leak.

Do you still think that TW have a strong case?

This makes more sense. The point I was making about TW is that they would be winning [easily] against a poorly marshalled case from yourself.

It seems to me that you should be getting the pump replaced now and passing the bill on to TW rather than sitting there freezing . TW have had their opportunity to fix this themselves.

As for the blockage and the leak, a lot depends upon what pipe is blocked and why and what leaked and why and whether this was down to poor materials, poor workmanship or subsequent misuse.

I'm struggling to think of a pipe which would be acceptable in 15mm but not in 10mm microbore which could get blocked to the extent that a leak would be caused.

It helps to understand that Carillion are involved on your insurer's behalf. The Insurer are washing their hands of the issue of the pipe and the blockage, so effectively you are not going to get any useful testimony directly from the Carillion inspector. You have to regard his remarks about the pipe as throw away remarks.

If you took TW to court, you don't have the evidence you need at the moment, certainly for the pipe. I'm coming to the view that the pipe may be better as 15mm, but I don't think it is central to your case. And I think a court would come to the same view.

If you are going to take this forward, I think you really need to establish exactly why there was a leak, in a rigorous way supported by an expert.

jkdt0077

Thanks for the advice. What kind of expert do you suggest?

Don't you think a senior engineer at a heating company is an expert or is there somewhere else I should look? Do you think the TW engineer is more of an expert than the Carillion engineer?

peachyprice

jkdt0077 wrote: »

The leak caused the system to empty, causing the pressure in the system to drop. The pump, however, continued running causing the impeller to overheat and eventually broke. Now, when the boiler is turned on it overheats and cuts out because there is no circulation from the pump. Does this make sense?

Sorry to butt in, but why can't the pump just be replaced? Why the need for a whole new boiler?

jkdt0077

peachyprice wrote: »

Sorry to butt in, but why can't the pump just be replaced? Why the need for a whole new boiler?

Hi peachyprice,

There is no need for a boiler. As far as I know the boiler is fine - it's perhaps my wording in the original post that caused some confusion. I just refer to the whole system as "the boiler" but really it seems to be the water tank part of the system that's faulty. Apparently it needs a power flush, new pump, new varem (?) and the whole thing needs repressurising again.

Carillion originally quoted Axa around £700 to do this work. Quite frankly I don't want to pay that if it's because of TW's crap workmanship.

peachyprice

Ah, yes I misunderstood your OP.

£700 for a new pump and a bit of pipework seems a bit steep, have you had any other quotes?

DVardysShadow

The varem is a pressurising vessel, I think.

It seems that the sequence of events was something like

• Pressure vessel [varem] failed expelling water
• a particular pipe, allegedly too small being blocked led to no replenishment of water in the boiler
• a steam bubble blew in the boiler, voiding the pump
• the pump ran dry and failed

Assuming the above to be correct, the primary cause of failure would be the varem. The pipe which is possibly too small may have contributed to the pump failure.

So this breaks down into different arguments for different bits

• The varem would be the responsibility of the varem manufacturer - but through TW
• the pump would be the responsibility of TW if the pipe which is too small was blocked due to inadequate commissioning or the responsibility of the householder or his maintainer if it was blocked due to poor maintenance - but would be the responsibility of TW if the pipe were shown to be too small against current codes of practice or was demonstrably wrong - otherwise it is just one of those things.
• The consequential damage is apportioned according to the amount and spread of water arising from the varem failure and the pipe blockage.

There is no single answer to this situation and it would be a mistake to attempt to pin it all in one direction on a single argument.

jkdt0077

I've been reading a little more about the piping and expansion vessels etc. I found this interesting site, although I have no way of knowing how valid the content is, it seems to back up what might have happened in our case.

http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/system_basics.htm

Micro Bore System
Uses very small pipe (usually 8mm), so holds less water, but the pipes can easily block up especially in hard water areas. The high restriction of these systems can also cause more wear and tear on the pump and boiler

If fitting TRV's to this system then at least 3 radiator should not have them or and automatic by pass must be fitted.

I believe we do have 3 radiators without a TRV.