Minimising problems for your survivors

John_Pierpoint

Having two bank accounts, one that receives money and one that pays out money can help.

The receiving account can be left open to avoid bouncing perfectly normal payments.

Beware the organisations that simply start issuing cheques to "The personal representative of XYZ Dec'd", be ready to open such an account promptly after the death, even if you are only allowed to pay in until probate is granted.

Misterfyer

No discernible problems for persons of integrity. Give it up guys. It is a VERY GOOD IDEA worth considering if you are an honest person. Thieves and fraudsters will have lots of problems. Me not.

canaster

Misterfryer, You really are a trusting soul, but do you truly believe that if you tell your wife "everything" she will forgive you?? :j

I can see some merit in your recommendation but only in very specific circumstances. My own brethren, for example, would spend the loot the instant they could get their hands on it.

What about people on means-tested benefits, or who may have to apply for such benefits. Access to a joint account may invalidate the claim or lead to a massive overpayment, if discovered later (when the "unpleasant" thing happens).

Local council's are now even hiring credit agencies to trawl their financial records to check that council tax payers are not claiming an unauthorised single persons rebate. There is one local vicar around here who is accused (wrongly) of cohabiting with two Nuns.

I agree that there is nothing to fear if innocent. But I would not want the hassle of attending an "Interview Under Caution" just to show them how wrong they are.

Not a good idea; but thanks for the laugh! :beer:

Savvy_Sue

Errata wrote: »

Banks will release funds to cover funeral expenses before Probate when they're presented with a death certificate.
Local authorities will foot the costs of a place in a care home and recover them if a deputy needs to be appointed by the Court of Protection.
What's the problem?

Thanks for saying this before I got the chance.

dzug1 wrote: »

who owns these joint accounts after death?

It immediately passes to the survivor. 100%, no questions asked. But I suspect you knew that ...

dzug1 wrote: »

Whose tax return does the interest go on? Who does the interest belong to?

I think that it can be split according to whose money it is, BUT I'm not sure, and I'm also not sure how you'd 'prove' that it was not a 50/50 split.

dzug1 wrote: »

And more importantly just why is this key piece of advice left out of the fact sheets?

I haven't seen the key reasons (from my limited understanding) listed so far but I admit I haven't got my glasses on so I may have missed it.

If you have a joint account and you have to claim any means tested benefits, that money is regarded as 50 / 50 yours. I don't know how far back checks are made, but I'm pretty sure that you can't just move the money out and say "it wasn't really my money anyway".

and the same applies if you end up in the divorce courts, which sadly more and more couples do. Maybe that's not a relevant consideration for the OP who seems supremely confident that there are no problems with having a joint a/c with both mother and MIL, but if his (her?) affairs had to be declared for the purposes of a divorce settlement, that would include those accounts.

That's not to say that there are no good reasons for having a joint account other than with a spouse, but the reasons stated in the first post are not, IMO, compelling.

dzug1

Misterfyer wrote: »

No discernible problems for persons of integrity. Give it up guys. It is a VERY GOOD IDEA worth considering if you are an honest person. Thieves and fraudsters will have lots of problems. Me not.

But you've amply demonstrated you are NOT an honest person - maybe in your own eyes you are, but are certainly prepared to play fast and loose with bureaucratic procedures set up for the protection of yourself and others.


And even if you account for the money 'honestly' it's not so much the law you need to fear (most fraudsters get away with it anyway) but the mutterings of aggrieved relatives who rightly or wrongly suspect you of skullduggery but can't 'prove' it. Your reputation is shot to blazes and there's nothing you can do about it.

Biggles

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I think that it can be split according to whose money it is, BUT I'm not sure, and I'm also not sure how you'd 'prove' that it was not a 50/50 split.

No, I don't think so. A joint account is owned 50:50 and, if one party sends the bank an R85, they will calculate tax on exactly 50% of the interest without asking.

Biggles

Misterfyer wrote: »

It may well be that in some circumstances, having a joint bank account is not a good idea. If you have a family rent with suspicion or doom-sayers or self proclaimed legal experts for neighbours, maybe you should avoid it

You would find that, when care of an ageing relative's assets becomes an issue, perfectly normal family members will become rent with suspicion, doom-sayers and self-proclaimed legal experts. You won't know until it's too late.

So, I take it you agree, it's a bad idea?

lilac_lady

I already have a joint account set up with one of my children. It's to pay for my funeral costs. I decided against a funeral plan and organised the bank account instead. No fraud is intended and my other children know and agree with this decision.

Any fighting over money when I'm gone? I won't be around to worry about it.

Mojisola

lilac_lady wrote: »

I already have a joint account set up with one of my children. It's to pay for my funeral costs. I decided against a funeral plan and organised the bank account instead. No fraud is intended and my other children know and agree with this decision.

Any fighting over money when I'm gone? I won't be around to worry about it.

What about before you've gone? A decision that seems a good idea when your "child" is healthy and working can cause problems if he/she goes through a divorce or needs to claim mean tested benefits. Half of all the money in that account would be seen as being theirs.

John_Pierpoint

Come on most families have a blood is thicker than water attitude, especially as the sums are relatively small. Are we sure that lilac-lady has a "both must sign" situation.
A good old fashioned building society account with a pass-book is usually in the power of the person with the book.;)