Chargebacks - stand up for yourself and win

hotbanana

Since I started on Ebay in the late 90s, simply selling odds and ends Id have otherwise given away, I never had any problems and have made several grand that I otherwise likely wouldnt.

Same with Amazon I joined in 2003.

With the chargeback scamming culture has really gained popularity. Ive decided i cant be bothered anymore.

Ive never lost a claim, despite never sending items with a trackable method. Yet it does take up lots of time having to respond and deal with these cheap, petty, people. Its overall not worth it to me. Having read how far and wide the practice is, I feel sorry for those who have businesses to run and rely more heavily on ebay as an income rather than a past time event.

My latest experience ended up so far as being settled in my favour, after having to take out a small courts claim. What a hassle it was over 60 quid - yet I never give in and fight the corner of principle that I wont let people get one over, the satisfaction of scamming.

It is dispicable people who see it as less of a risk than going shoplifting. Yet the crime is no different, theft is theft.

So I will not be bothered with either site unless they get this problem resolved, I think they will as there is alot of grumblings. Soon the only people will be those that sell low value items in bulk a sort of cheap bazaar.

For those newish to ebay and amazon, Id strongly suggest to avoid selling anything of high value. it really is playing russian roulette with 1 in the chamber.

The past year of selling has been a 5%-10% chargeback (non receipt) rate.

It really has gone downhill - there is no easy solution and im writing my experience as a casual reminder to those who already know but also as a warning to those that might see ebay/amazon as a good place to raise cash in these difficult times.

oscardog

The sad thing is that neither Ebay nor Paypal (the same people anyway!!) care.

They get their fees whatever happens and so have a vested interest in causing as few problems as possible to their cash cow.

That is part of the reason why I am taking Paypal to court.

I feel your pain.

chemical.galaxy

I just got my money back from Paypal after complaining to the Ombudsman about a problem buyer I had to refund.
It was a matter of principle rather than the money which was around £50.

Fosterdog

I think a lot of the problem lays with delivery companies too, yes there are a lot of people scamming out there but what about people who have paid and genuinely didn't receive their goods or they were damaged?

I don't sell on ebay or amazon, I do buy several times a year and have only ever had one issue with an item. However through my job I deal with transferring items between our site and others within the company, over the last year we have lost hundreds of thousands of pounds of stock through a number of delivery companies. We have very strict stock control within the company but as soon as it's with couriers we lose that control. It has got so bad we recently ended our longstanding contracts with all but two of the couriers we used to use.

RFW

I haven't noticed it as prevalent as some say, with what must be more than 100,000 transactions I've had around 15 chargebacks. I only noticed any kind of increase when I opened an account selling smaller value items overseas. I've had some success with them, one when I had tracking and the most recent when Ebay found quite quickly against the buyer.

I do find it interesting when people go to court over "a principle", would you really go to court for £2 as a principle? or is there a lower limit to the value of your principles?

soolin

I don't think I have seen any noticeable increase in claims, fake or otherwise. I' m still-evening out at about 1 loss per 1000 items . I did have a slight blip around the end of last year - but one parcel came back to me and one was my fault as I had opened my listings to Italy again which with hindsight was a mistake.

mikey72

hotbanana wrote: »

Since I started on Ebay in the late 90s, simply selling odds and ends Id have otherwise given away, I never had any problems and have made several grand that I otherwise likely wouldnt.

Same with Amazon I joined in 2003.

With the chargeback scamming culture has really gained popularity. Ive decided i cant be bothered anymore.

Ive never lost a claim, despite never sending items with a trackable method. Yet it does take up lots of time having to respond and deal with these cheap, petty, people. Its overall not worth it to me. Having read how far and wide the practice is, I feel sorry for those who have businesses to run and rely more heavily on ebay as an income rather than a past time event.

My latest experience ended up so far as being settled in my favour, after having to take out a small courts claim. What a hassle it was over 60 quid - yet I never give in and fight the corner of principle that I wont let people get one over, the satisfaction of scamming.

It is dispicable people who see it as less of a risk than going shoplifting. Yet the crime is no different, theft is theft.

So I will not be bothered with either site unless they get this problem resolved, I think they will as there is alot of grumblings. Soon the only people will be those that sell low value items in bulk a sort of cheap bazaar.

For those newish to ebay and amazon, Id strongly suggest to avoid selling anything of high value. it really is playing russian roulette with 1 in the chamber.

The past year of selling has been a 5%-10% chargeback (non receipt) rate.

It really has gone downhill - there is no easy solution and im writing my experience as a casual reminder to those who already know but also as a warning to those that might see ebay/amazon as a good place to raise cash in these difficult times.

So what's the secret?

How do you ensure 100% delivery rate, as I know I've had items I've not received.
I assume you use RM, if you don't track.

hotbanana

mikey72 wrote: »

So what's the secret?

How do you ensure 100% delivery rate, as I know I've had items I've not received.
I assume you use RM, if you don't track.

I have also not received about 1% of items of everything ive bought online.

That 1% is pretty accurate and ties in with Royal Mail official statistics.

It is, of course, simply not possible to hope to achieve 100% delivery rate success, unless you drive around the country yourself. Whenever a third party is involved, the risk is taken that they do either fail to deliver, item gets missing, or the opportunity arises for someone dishonest to claim they never received it.

In the chargebacks I received, there was always enough tell tale signs to indicate suspicion. A reluctance, for instance, for them to participate in cooperation with a royal mail investigation. Unrealistic demands for a refund, within days of the the item being dispatched.

I have went so far as to have amazon have to supply me with personal information of the buyer relating to any previous chargebacks they had made. Initially ran into difficulty with them doing this, but got there in the end.

I have for one chargeback, spent in total around 2 hours on the phone to paypal. I ended up going through around 5 telephonists until one in Luxembourg sided with me and closed down their claim straight away.

The end result is that im satisfised that the scammers did not prevail, yet, for what used to also be a fun pastime, selling unwanted stuff and wondering what price it would go for, for a small time non professional seller like me, I just cant be bothered with the hassle of what has become a buyer-sided enterprise.

I will continue to use them to buy products, but for the selling aspect, based solely on the chargeback thieves that are seemingly brazen and not alarmed by the blatant acts of theft and fraud they are committing (police relecutant to investigate) it is for now, a bit of a minefield im not willing to play in.

As for the principle. Anyone who wants to chargeback for 2 quid is welcome to do so. lets face it, even the total tramps wont get far by using up their quota of chargebacks on trivial amounts. my lowest chargeback claim was for 30 quid, the highest for 60. For the amount of beer I can buy for that, im not willing to just write it off. Its not solely the money, I think it is a dispicable cheek to defraud someone and being tied to a stock where the town can pelt rotten veg at is the historically appropiate punishment. Instead they sit comfortably ordering what they like from "free-bay" without a care in the world for the sellers that could be trying hard to make ends meet in these difficult times. The huge volume business sellers already build these fraud costs in as a cost of doing business.

hotbanana

if they want to scam, my principle is to make them work for it. I dont see any merit in willingly given a refund, it just makes it easier for them to continue to the next victim. dont get scared or intimidated by paypals quasi legal authority to hand your money around as they see fit - the more of us put the pressure on - will have an effect over the long term. great empires can fall as quick as they rise, especially when it comes to .coms

Oliver14

hotbanana wrote: »

if they want to scam, my principle is to make them work for it. I dont see any merit in willingly given a refund, it just makes it easier for them to continue to the next victim. dont get scared or intimidated by paypals quasi legal authority to hand your money around as they see fit - the more of us put the pres stupid sure on - will have an effect over the long term. great empires can fall as quick as they rise, especially when it comes to .coms

Sorry that's a stupid policy. Most of the time there is no way you could be 100% sure it was not a genuine loss. Doing what you're suggesting is a great way to wreck your ebay account. The phrase ' cutting your nose off to spite your face' comes to mind.

mikey72

hotbanana wrote: »

if they want to scam, my principle is to make them work for it. I dont see any merit in willingly given a refund, it just makes it easier for them to continue to the next victim. dont get scared or intimidated by paypals quasi legal authority to hand your money around as they see fit - the more of us put the pressure on - will have an effect over the long term. great empires can fall as quick as they rise, especially when it comes to .coms

If you truly believe everyones a scammer, it's probably best you stop selling tbh.
But I have to say, I would be the same as you. If it didn't arrive, and you were obstructive as a seller, I would be the first in the small claims court.