So very angry right now!!

Gingham_R

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I have a gifted child in my class who is just like this. Every other teacher he has had, has found him extremely disruptive. I LOVE him!

I can cater for him in lessons easily enough with lots of higher level, challenging problem solving stuff, but he is a nightmare at lunchtimes and breaktimes.

I give him what little extra time I can by giving up my assembly time PPA to give him (and another child) extra tuition using philosophy style, critical thinking questions. He LOVES these, and says mine is the first class he's ever been encouraged to ask questions in! In fact, his last teacher (another school) 'banned him' from asking questions! I can understand how that might have happened, even though I don't agree with it myself.

I think I am doing OK with this child, but am aware that he could benefit from so much more intervention from elsewhere. I also worry that I am missing others, and know there are parents who resent this sort of 'unequal' (as they see it) treatment.

:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j I despair when I hear this recurrent theme of children being banned from asking, and answering, questions.

I bet he's having a whale of a time in your class.

He might have an NAGC branch near him that would give him some enrichment. That might be an option if you're looking for more for him.

Person_one

Gingham_R wrote: »

That's rude.

I'm trying to explain that I feel you've misunderstood my understanding of giftedness.

I'm afraid it came across as incredibly dismissive and condescending.

(Also, you've mixed up me and jojo.)

Gingham_R

Person_one wrote: »

I'm afraid it came across as incredibly dismissive and condescending.
.)

Sorry about the mix-up. I don't understand what was meant to be dismissive or condescending. I was just stating some facts about my experience. If that is condescending, I really don't know what to say.

Maybe I'm best just saying nothing. Seems to work best in real life.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Gingham_R wrote: »

Why do you think I was suggesting that a high IQ kid should sit down and be quiet? Or not ask questions? That's the worst thing a teacher could do to a gifted child.

Because that is what all the 'no hands up' and 'tell your partner' stuff boils down to in the majority of classroom situations. Just because the child of a teacher is encouraged at home, or is fully aware of how to be a good student, that doesn't mean the kid from a tough background where they are battered at home and in the playground for being too clever by half is going to respond to the same style of teaching that your child may have done. The only time of approval/attention could very well be the brief moments when they can stick their hand up and answer a question.


I sat through a few lessons where the partner approach meant that the partner deliberately and consistently marked things wrong because they didn't want the other person to score highly - and the teacher didn't care because the point was that the peers did the marking. No point bothering in a test where the only person that's going to see it is one who is going to take the pee out of your shoes once you leave the classroom. Drawing cartoons would be far more enjoyable use of the time.

In the same way, how can the work not be boringly easy when you have to do the same work as the kid next to you? It reduces G&T kids to nothing more than unpaid teaching assistants and after teaching an entire business studies class to GCSE level following staff shortages, I had absolutely no interest in continuing further with anything remotely academic and spent my time hiding from staff as much as possible. Well, except for the ones who liked the gobby kid sat at the back drawing cartoons, throwing out smart comments and answering the occasional questions on the basis of having spent 5 minutes flicking through the textbook whilst the rest of the class was still faffing around with their chairs. Or ran the Art or Music Departments.


BTW, I had noticed your earlier mention of a gifted child, thanks. I thought it would be useful to mention that not all G&T kids would respond to the method you mentioned. Ones from A&B families might well, maybe a few C1's, but those from the Es who have been cursed with a brain in continual hyperdrive would not necessarily - so they would cause havoc in your lessons.


I will turn to the passive aggressive comments. If you are actually in possession of an IQ high enough to be accepted by MENSA (although why anyone would want to pay to be told something you know already completely escapes me), you know damn well how smart you are and don't need to try and make somebody feel bad about supposedly picking on you, when they actually just disagree with your interpretation of the situation. And to suggest someone obviously doesn't understand is dangerously close to condescending.

But hey, there aren't that many of us around, so maybe it's hard to think that a random person on the interwebs could possibly be similar to you in IQ whilst disagreeing with something you have said. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't do it to my face. :cool:


Whatever.

Gingham_R

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Because that is what all the 'no hands up' and 'tell your partner' stuff boils down to in the majority of classroom situations. Just because the child of a teacher is encouraged at home, or is fully aware of how to be a good student, that doesn't mean the kid from a tough background where they are battered at home and in the playground for being too clever by half is going to respond to the same style of teaching that your child may have done. The only time of approval/attention could very well be the brief moments when they can stick their hand up and answer a question. A lot of the time, they don't get approval for getting questions right. They get 'we know you know the answer. Can someone else have a go?' or worse - they get told not to put their hand up at all. Every child responds differently which is why I'm advocating variety, not one method.


I sat through a few lessons where the partner approach meant that the partner deliberately and consistently marked things wrong because they didn't want the other person to score highly - and the teacher didn't care because the point was that the peers did the marking. No point bothering in a test where the only person that's going to see it is one who is going to take the pee out of your shoes once you leave the classroom. Drawing cartoons would be far more enjoyable use of the time. That's appalling and not what I'm suggesting. I'm talking about ONE strategy being telling your partner something, them telling you then calling out the answers - NOT having your work marked by another pupil.

In the same way, how can the work not be boringly easy when you have to do the same work as the kid next to you? There's no escaping that IF you have the same work as the kid next to you. Why would someone give a child work to do if they can already do it? I wouldn't. It's a complete waste of their time and is exactly what I meant when i said that children need to be learning - they do not necessarily need to be being taught. The 'most difficult first' strategy is a good starting point for teachers - let the kids answer the hardest parts first if they want to and if they get most of it right let them do something else - NOT make them do more of the same if they finish the work set which is a common strategy with gifted kids. It reduces G&T kids to nothing more than unpaid teaching assistants I AGREEand after teaching an entire business studies class to GCSE level following staff shortages, I had absolutely no interest in continuing further with anything remotely academic and spent my time hiding from staff as much as possible. Me too. Well, except for the ones who liked the gobby kid sat at the back drawing cartoons, throwing out smart comments and answering the occasional questions on the basis of having spent 5 minutes flicking through the textbook whilst the rest of the class was still faffing around with their chairs. Or ran the Art or Music Departments.


BTW, I had noticed your earlier mention of a gifted child, thanks. I thought it would be useful to mention that not all G&T kids would respond to the method you mentioned.I didn't mention a method for dealing with giftedness. I mentioned ways round hands up only questioning. Ones from A&B families might well, maybe a few C1's, but those from the Es who have been cursed with a brain in continual hyperdrive would not necessarily - so they would cause havoc in your lessons. I work with gifted children. This isn't how it goes at all. Partly because they're working with other kids on a similar wavelength and partly because I'm not going in trying to 'teach' them. That's not my job.


I will turn to the passive aggressive comments. If you are actually in possession of an IQ high enough to be accepted by MENSA (although why anyone would want to pay to be told something you know already completely escapes me), you know damn well how smart you are and don't need to try and make somebody feel bad about supposedly picking on you, when they actually just disagree with your interpretation of the situation. And to suggest someone obviously doesn't understand is dangerously close to condescending. I don't understand what you're accusing me of. I never suggested that you or anyone else didn't understand. I applied to mensa to help me son. I didn't want him joining an organisation without knowing what it was all about. He wanted to join because a couple of his friends are members, but he lost interest and I didn't bother joining either. Not that this needs to be explained as it is a private matter.

But hey, there aren't that many of us around, so maybe it's hard to think that a random person on the interwebs could possibly be similar to you in IQ whilst disagreeing with something you have said. I'm pretty certain you wouldn't do it to my face. :cool: I don't understand this either. First of all, I don't have it in me to say something online that I wouldnt' say to someone's face. That's the nature of my ADHD - I say what I think all the time. Secondly, I don't know what you mean about not thinking someone has a similar IQ to me. Someone (you?) mentioned their IQ being in the stratosphere. I assumed yours was much higher than mine. Being in the top 2% as I am means I am just a little unusual. I was assuming yours was in the top 0.1 or 0.01% or similar - in other words I was assuming you were much smarter than me and did't have anything to say about that as that is the situation with several of my friends too.


Whatever.

I think we are talking at cross purposes. I wasn't being passive aggressive. I'm just genuinely lost, apparently !!!!ing people off and think it would be better if I just stopped talking.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Tell you what, let's stop talking at cross purposes then.


I was the nightmare kid. I would probably have loved having you in my lessons. I think were we face to face, we'd understand each other's position much better (non verbal cues and all that), and quite possibly find out we agreed on 99% of things - and, seeing as you are the expert (genuinely not being sarcastic), I'd have to take it all back on seeing how one of your classes/sessions actually works. :whistle:

meritaten

I can see exactly what GinghamR is talking about. I have been fortunate to see at firsthand how a gifted dedicated teacher handles a class of 'juvenile delinquents' as they were commonly known. how that teacher seemed to be able to 'Tailor' her teaching style to each persons needs. I was working as a Student Support in a class at a local college which catered for 14 - 19 year olds which had been excluded from school or missed the last couple of years of school. and this woman was incredible.
The whole class were 'special needs' for one reason or another. this teacher made the class into a 'family' - she supported them, stuck up for them and more importantly - she saw each of them as individuals and the most important bit of advice she gave me was 'look for something to like in each of them - they all have something to admire about them'.
GinghamR sounds very much like her - and if SHE can do it - so can others! she was under the same pressure, same paperwork, same hours! yet she managed to get that class - every single one of them, through the process and come out with decent qualifications.
I dont understand why some of the teachers on here are so set on arguing with GinghamR - I havent always agreed with her myself - but on this I am 100% with her - There is no excuse for teaching 'one size fits all'! and unless you are doing as GinghamR and this wonderful teacher I knew was - then that is what you are doing!

Gingham_R

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Tell you what, let's stop talking at cross purposes then.


I was the nightmare kid. I would probably have loved having you in my lessons. I think were we face to face, we'd understand each other's position much better (non verbal cues and all that), and quite possibly find out we agreed on 99% of things - and, seeing as you are the expert (genuinely not being sarcastic), I'd have to take it all back on seeing how one of your classes/sessions actually works. :whistle:

:kisses3: Thank you! I'm sorry for confusing things.

I think you're right. I struggle on here, and always have without the use of non verbal cues. I have terrible trouble on conference calls too and try to avoid them now, even going as far as travelling 100 miles to go to a meeting rather than deal with it on the phone.

Also - nightmare child - yes. I admit to that one too!

Gingham_R

meritaten wrote: »

she saw each of them as individuals and the most important bit of advice she gave me was 'look for something to like in each of them - they all have something to admire about them'.

That. Just that. Thank you! :beer::j

joeblack066

daisiegg wrote: »

OP, I'm confused by your post about asthma. WHY would the fact that your daughter has asthma make you concerned about her being taught about it in science, to the extent that you need to 'prepare' her for it? I have asthma, as do loads of people, and it never crossed my mind to be concerned about learning about it in science...I'm confused, do you think it would upset her or something? are you maybe overprotecting her a little bit?

Because I am well aware that asthma can be fatal, this will undoubtedly be covered in the lesson, and I want her to be prepared for that discussion. I don't think thats being overprotective.