Does this count as a work event?

Xena_007

You guys probably had a few beverages which obviously has its consequences in terms of people saying probably what they shouldn't.... I think this is a case of someone failing to draw boundaries in your working relationship..... And they obviously haven't realised..... Speak to the person and tell them how upset you are 1st

SarEl

Xena_007 wrote: »

You guys probably had a few beverages which obviously has its consequences in terms of people saying probably what they shouldn't.... I think this is a case of someone failing to draw boundaries in your working relationship..... And they obviously haven't realised..... Speak to the person and tell them how upset you are 1st

It does depend on what happened. We are all speculating about what might have happened. It could be anything from a drunken colleague making an inappropriate grope (yes, maybe have words with them when sober) to someone saying that all ethnic minority people are scum and should be thrown out of the country (slightly more likley to !!!! off an employer who, for example, has ethnic minority staff).

The fact remains that if an action is inappropriate then it isn't relevant where or when it happened - but that is not the same thing as saying that the employer will think it is relevant to them. If the OP feels something should be said to the employer she can take advice from a manager, HR, or a diversity advisor if the have one. But only she can decide whether a formal complaint is appropriate in her opinion, and only the employer can decide then what to do about it.

Xena_007

I remember at one works due we had. One of the night colleagues was pi!!!!! that his contribution was not recognised and started a rant on stage at the GSM which led me to start singing " your getting sacked in the morning sacked in the morning" with another 6/7 colleagues following suit......

He never got sacked lol

catflea

Judith_W wrote: »

I don't know much about the legalities, but the OP stated there were pre-booked activites and then 'we' moved on to something unbooked. I think it is relevant when the incident/s happened. If we had a team meal then some went onto the pub after, I would def say that is not part of the team function.

I thought that it might be too, hence mentioning it. The problem however ran through all night.

Lets fill in some details here. Just to put things in perspective somewhat.

I am transsexual (male to female) and am in the early stages of the re-assignment process. I am diagnosed with the condition and work is fully aware of where I am and my timescales. I currently work in an androgynous guise most of the time, but all systems, email addresses etc (with the exception of payroll) is in my adopted female name and that is how I am referred to within the office (it is an adaption of my legal name which I will be changing shortly by deed poll).

I attended this function, presenting fully as female - as is the norm for me when outside of the office building (i.e xmas party etc I presented as female) used female facilities - as is deemed appropriate under law.

Throughout the night the individual in question insisted on using male pronouns and my male name (which is not used in the office, but is known), despite repeated correction (at least 5 times). Now to someone who doesn't know me or any other transfolk this might sound incredibly petty, but its not. Mis-gendering of someone is to deny their identity and also "outs" them to people who might not otherwise know and is deeply uncomfortable.

This went on for the whole night until it got to the point where I was actually in tears, at which point the individual in question asked me whether I was OK. To which he got the No and a further explaination of why to which I got a "you are too much work, I'm not going to talk to you again in the future" and he flounced off.

I am (slightly) senior to this chap - and one of the reasons for the meal etc in the first place was to celebrate my (and 1 others) promotion. My Manager is absolutley spitting feathers over this, as is hers.

For the record, I moderated my drinking and at no point could have been considered "drunk"

I have recieved transphobic comments etc in the office in the past, but not for a long time, and dealt with them in an informal manner. I believe that in this instance the actions taken were intended to be harmful and upsetting, hence my consideration of taking out a formal grievance - which will be taken VERY seriously by senior management...

Annisele

Do you mean your manager is "spitting feathers", as in your manager thinks "person X's treatment of catflea was totally unacceptable"? If so, and if your manager is any good, you might not need to raise a grievance.

Evilm

I would class this as a work related event and I would class this as a issue that should be raised. Assuming you have a HR department I would go to them (and if not your manager) and raise a formal grievance.

I'd be aiming for a quiet sit down with the person whose done this and I'd say that to HR - that your main issue here is that the issue is settled, and the person and yourself and back on talking terms so that it doesn't affect work in the future.

A understanding that the person realises that this isn't right and they need to avoid this in the future definitely is needed - the next person he upsets might just be a client or someone more litigious than yourself! (also there is a chance that if he is like this about trans issues he may be like this about other issues too - which your company won't otherwise find out until its too late!).

I know this is a huge issue for transpeople and its something you should officially be informing your employer about. Your manager that does know about it probably hasn't formally started anything due to the fact that they don't want to land you in the middle of it without your knowledge/permission especially if its upset you.

If you think your manager might be able to deal with it 'unofficially' then have a quiet word with her first before starting something official. Ask her advice on where to go with this.

SarEl

I agree that this is a mtter which should be raised, although it may well be that it is dealt with unofficially. To constantly make such inappropriate, and in my opinion somewhat serious comments, having been asked not to is not a slip of the tongue - it is deliberate baiting and suggests an underlying attitude which is unacceptable. An employer cannot "remove" an attitude, but they can, and in my opinion, should, ensure that their employees are clear that such behaviour is unacceptable. And if they have an attitude problem then they should keep it firmly to themselves.

catflea

Thank you ever so much indeed for your advice everyone.

I think have decided that I'm going to deal with this myself on an informal-ish basis for the moment as having slept on it, I think that it was the result of intoxication and a lack of comprehension rather than underlying malice. But I will be making it clear that a repeat incident will simply not be tolerated.

IF he apologises today (in not in the office yet) then I shall accept the apology, move on and nothing more will be said. If not it'll be a discussion followed by an informal warning from me. Having re-read the diversity policy there is a very good chance he could end up on a gross misconduct charge if I went formal and I really don't want that.

DVardysShadow

catflea wrote: »

Thank you ever so much indeed for your advice everyone.

I think have decided that I'm going to deal with this myself on an informal-ish basis for the moment as having slept on it, I think that it was the result of intoxication and a lack of comprehension rather than underlying malice. But I will be making it clear that a repeat incident will simply not be tolerated.

IF he apologises today (in not in the office yet) then I shall accept the apology, move on and nothing more will be said. If not it'll be a discussion followed by an informal warning from me. Having re-read the diversity policy there is a very good chance he could end up on a gross misconduct charge if I went formal and I really don't want that.

You have already said that you are slightly senior to this person. You need to think through what is involved in giving this person an informal warning. If it is the kind of warning you would give someone on the same level as you ie colleague to colleague, then fair enough. But this complaint will not then count as a separate incident if you need to take the matter further - the next complaint will be the first complaint in the company process.

And if the informal warning can be construed as a management - staff interaction, then watch out - don't do it. You will be putting your self in the position of victim, investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner. This can go badly wrong. You will hand ammunition to your enemy.

Make your choice. Either do it colleague to colleague and be clear that it is personal rather than official. Or put it into the machinery and let someone else do it.

Uncertain

DVardysShadow wrote: »

And if the informal warning can be construed as a management - staff interaction, then watch out - don't do it. You will be putting your self in the position of victim, investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner. This can go badly wrong. You will hand ammunition to your enemy.

Make your choice. Either do it colleague to colleague and be clear that it is personal rather than official. Or put it into the machinery and let someone else do it.

Absolutely!

It seems to me you have two choices....

Either you say to him, off the record "Look mate, you were bang out of order and if you do it again I'll make a formal complaint" or you make one now so that the issue is at least recorded.

What you shouldn't do is something in the middle.

Also, in the real world, you need to consider how others in the organisation would respond to you if you were to make this official. OK, we all know this shouldn't be an issue but you would have to work with these people every day. Obviously there is a point in any such situation where the only option is to make it formal but judging exactly when that point is reached is difficult.

It is a bit like having a dispute with your neighbour about a fence. You don't want them to take advantage of your good nature but you still have to live next door if you fall out.

Difficult.