Advice needed on School Admission Appeal

quietheart

bylromarha wrote:

Rovers, from what you've said it sounds like your son having a statement for a diagnosis of ASD? If this is the case, is your 1st choice school geared up to best meet your childs needs? If they are, then this is something you can use in your appeal...if other schools in the area aren't ready to support your child in the way that the 1st choice is. If it is an ASD diagnosis, feel free to pm me on things you should be looking for in potential schools...a free reception classroom is a scary place for a child who needs structure.

When the statement comes through it will have money attached...this could be why bracknell lea allow it as an exception when appealing?

I have to say i didn't think the 30 per class rule could be bent in any way as the school loses funds if numbers are higher in KS1...I don't think the teaching assistants make a difference. Some heads get round the 30 rule by having registration groups of 30, but the actual teaching takes place in classes of over 30. The set number that the school is willing to take is submitted to the LEA each year- this figure has a lot to do with whether your appeal will be successful or not.

Hope all goes well...sorry if this has confused you further though!

He has selective mutism so he isn't talking/communicating at all on school premises, he's also being assessed for aspergers and dyspraxia. The SM is anxiety related and that's why the smoothest school transition would be important. The other school has far more special needs experience but is a manic environment and currently without a headteacher, as the parent partnership said, just because they have more experience at it doesn't mean they are any good at it........
The 30 rule is the worry, maybe the best I can aim for is to be at the top of what promises to be a long waiting list.
Would be interested in your suggestions for schools as there are links between SM and ASD, would you PM me?
Cheers

Jolaaled

rovers wrote:

The 30 rule is the worry, maybe the best I can aim for is to be at the top of what promises to be a long waiting list.

Cheers

Infant class sizes cannot go above 30 ( per one qualified teacher..number of teaching assistant's makes no difference)... however, if the 31st child has a statement naming that school, then the school have to employ another teacher, to create an additional class.

Spendless

Hi bylrohama

I am only able to talk of my own experience i can't give an explanation as i don't know myself.

The church school that i talk of had allowed kids in because their parents had written on form that they were religious/attended church. The criteria was that this had to be supported by their vicar and it hadn't been. That was the argument put forward by the parents of children who got left out, that the school hadn't applied their own criteria. The appeal panel took the same view hence going over the 30 limit and telling school to build an extension. There were definately 3 children who got in on appeal (cos i knew their mums),there was possibly 4.

A friend of mine didn't get in the Church school but had also applied to a different school which she wasn't in catchment for either. She was worried that her child wouldn't get into her other choice school. I knew that sons school was bigger and able to take more kids so i remember going through every page of admission book with her to see what her choices would be. That's how i discovered that my sons school had 70 places.
I realised there was actually 78 kids in the year when the Christmas card lists came out! Also there was an article in our village mag saying that there were 78 children in reception and that the school had had the biggest reception intake in the town!

I have no idea why the school went 8 children over. A nearby school shut down after going into special measures,and i know some children who live in this area are at sons school. perhaps these had to be accommodated. There are also 2 sets of triplets in sons year so 6 places gone where there would only usually be two. I'd be surprised if this made a difference but i have no idea why we have 78 kids instead of the published figure of 70.

Last year sons school had an Ofsted and at the meeting with the parents and Ofsted inspectors some parents of Years 1 and 2 brought up that the class sizes were more than 30. They had started off as 3 class years in reception but split up into 2 in the following years. Again i have no idea how the school gets round this.

The friend that i spoke of that didn't get into the church school did get into the second school of her choice. It was the head of this school that had told her that in a previous year they had gone a few over their 30 limit and got round it by putting in a teaching assisstant.

I'm sorry i can't give any reasons as to what i'm saying but i thought it might be of some help to the OP if i can give examples of where rules appear to have been 'bent' even though i can't explain why.

rovers - Do you know why you haven't got in the school? Do you live outside catchment for example.
I got a booklet from sons school and that gave the admission criteria. For sons school the first criteria is having a statement of special needs, followed by catchment area. There are others after this but i can't remember them all.

Good Luck

quietheart

Spendless wrote:

rovers - Do you know why you haven't got in the school? Do you live outside catchment for example.
I got a booklet from sons school and that gave the admission criteria. For sons school the first criteria is having a statement of special needs, followed by catchment area. There are others after this but i can't remember them all.

Good Luck

Thanks.
We are about a mile away from the school, it's a 90 child 3 form entry but it's densely populated and very popular. Statemented children are 1st priority but we don't have a statement at time of admissions, wish they didn't take so long. He got into the nursery on non statemented special needs and we were told he'd get into the school but the LEA took over admissions for the first time, I wouldn't have put him in the nursery if I knew he'd have to move for reception....
I'm very interested in cases where people won appeals against the odds, it could potentially help my appeal.

Spendless

Hi rovers

You say you live 1 mile away so is that in catchment or not?

I've racked my brain a little further and i'm sure that the last criteria for my sons school in event of a tie was how near the child was to the school (ie the one nearest would get in). I'm sure this was walking rather than by car and using a recognised footpath (unfortunately think i've thrown booklet away).

So if you discovered that a child living further away got in this MAY be a case for appeal.

As to how the schools near me are getting round the 30 per class rule as i said earlier i've no idea (i just know they are). I'm sure my friend hasn't made the story up about what the head said about classroom assistants - but she could have been mistaken yes.
I promise if i knew the answer (or if i find out ) i'll tell -lol

jellyhead

it may be that having an assistant didn't make a difference but that the school felt one was necessary lol!

i know our school was forced to take extra children moving into the area after an appeal last year, i'll try to find out the details when i'm next volunteering in school, i'm pretty sure one of the children was in year one though (the other was going into year 5 where the class size is only 24 anyhow, it was the year 1 child the school refused).

our school took on an extra teacher for my sons year group while they were in key stage 1, then once they got into year 3 threw them together with nearly 40 to a class :eek:

i'm not sure how much influence the head of the school has on admissions, my son got in through special circumstances (the head of the nursery asked the head of the primary if it would be okay for him to join them in april, they didn't do april intakes but as he was nowhere near ready for school when he should have started, the nursery kept him longer). my son had a statement though, he got it for nursery. it takes ages i know. my son didn't go to nursery until he was 4, he couldn't have managed nursery until the statement came through, he spent 2 terms in nursery, 1 term in reception then went into year 1 as normal. he was going into a special needs nursery instead but the statement came through before a place was found in the special needs nursery. i don't know your son's specific problems but have you considered a special needs nursery for him? can the nursery talk to the school for you? could you talk to the school? there might be a way around it if they know the statement is in the pipeline. is there a support group for parents of children with SEN? they might know what you can do, we have a group here but i can't remember the name, i know they go to appeals with parents, help them to know the system, etc. citizens advice might be able to tell you if there's a group in your area. good luck! i'll try to find out what i can for you, helping in school means i get to hear inside info sometimes.

quietheart

Spendless wrote:

Hi rovers

You say you live 1 mile away so is that in catchment or not?

They don't call it catchment, children nearest as the crow flies get priority after statements/siblings.

jellyhead wrote:

i'm not sure how much influence the head of the school has on admissions, my son got in through special circumstances (the head of the nursery asked the head of the primary if it would be okay for him to join them in april, they didn't do april intakes but as he was nowhere near ready for school when he should have started, the nursery kept him longer). my son had a statement though, he got it for nursery. it takes ages i know. my son didn't go to nursery until he was 4, he couldn't have managed nursery until the statement came through, he spent 2 terms in nursery, 1 term in reception then went into year 1 as normal. he was going into a special needs nursery instead but the statement came through before a place was found in the special needs nursery. i don't know your son's specific problems but have you considered a special needs nursery for him? can the nursery talk to the school for you? could you talk to the school? there might be a way around it if they know the statement is in the pipeline. is there a support group for parents of children with SEN? they might know what you can do, we have a group here but i can't remember the name, i know they go to appeals with parents, help them to know the system, etc. citizens advice might be able to tell you if there's a group in your area. good luck! i'll try to find out what i can for you, helping in school means i get to hear inside info sometimes.

I've seen the head as has his teacher but for the first time she has no power, the LEA is controlling admissions and the waiting list so it sounds like it will be done by the book (you know what LEAs are like for rules!) There is a parent partnership scheme but until we get a statement we can only go down the normal appeals route, I think it'll be June before we can do a SEN appeal.
Any inside info would be fab, let me know if you hear anything!
Thanks to everyone so far, what did I do before MSE??

Spendless

rovers - are you talking about a church school or not. I have no idea if its the same everywhere but our church schools all set their own criteria in order. The other non church schools also have a criteria but not ness the same ones in the same order as the church ones.

So from your posts the schools criteria is
1 - Statement of special needs
2- siblings
3 - nearest to school

Is this right? If so have you checked if people further away have got places,cos if so this may be a grounds for appeal.

edit - i also forgot to ask where are you in Uk - as different rules may apply to Scotland and possibly Wales too.

quietheart

That's right, it's not a church school, think we'd have more chance if it was... it's a community school in Birmingham. There seems to be a huge amount of siblings so I don't think there will be people further away than us, I think the SEN is our only chance really.

Spendless

rovers - do you know how many other children haven't got in? Also i have sent you a PM.