'03' numbers being introduced in March 2007

bunking_off

Don't you just hate it when you type a long response then the site cr*ps out?

DonnyDave wrote:

Other originating telcos pay the terminating ones the same amount as BT does. It costs other telcos more to originate the calls, so they end up either making less profit and/or charging more than BT. Is this right?

You're correct that all telcos pay the terminating telco the same. However, your belief that all telcos will have higher costs than BT is wrong. Some may have a higer cost base, some lower. This said it is fair to say that if you see someone charging materially less for 0845/0870 calls than BT, they'll be making a loss (or alternatively using a transit network that's making a loss).

DonnyDave wrote:

I know Virgin Media charge 0845 and 0870 at 5 and 10p/min respectively for daytime rates. Full NGN rates for VM here. :eek:

Is this VM being greedy, or is this an example of how the way the system works stiffles competition by allowing BT to be the cheapest?

Think you're being a little unfair here. VM may have higher costs of origination than BT. Alternatively, given they're a company without market power (from a regulatory standpoint), their pricing isn't regulated and they may simply have chosen to charge more for these numbers. As a competitive organisation it's their choice to price at whatever level they think they can get away with, without losing customers. You may call that greed, I'd say it's no more greed than any other part of capitalism.

DonnyDave wrote:

This brings us round to 03. Will it work in a similar way or can Ofcom simply set the termination charge to be the same as geographicals so as to leave more room for profit at the originating end rather then the terminating CP.

As discussed on the other thread, it's still under negotiation, but is likely to be based on the geographic model. However, inherently the average termination rates for 03 will be higher than those for 01/02, because for 03 the calls will need to be near-end handover (there's no geo significance in the number) whereas for 01/02 far-end handover applies.

DonnyDave

The statement made in July following the Numbering Review defines:

‘UK-wide Number’ means a Telephone Number for a service charged at the rates set out in Part A where:
(i) the Numbering Plan of the Communications Provider offering the service has no
geographic significance;
(ii) the location of the Customer’s Apparatus identified by a given Telephone Number at the time of use is not necessarily permanently associated with a particular Network Termination Point;
(iii) number translation to a Geographic Number is involved; and
(iv) the service is not a Mobile Service.

The consultation document states:

3.14 There were more comments on the technical definition of 03. One confidential respondent proposed that the service definition of UK-wide Numbers - 03 numbers - should be amended to remove the proposed requirement for geographic number translation and the proposed prohibition of use for mobile services. This was based on the respondent’s understanding that calls could be originated as well as terminated using 03 numbers. Ofcom agrees with this suggestion, which Ofcom has since raised informally with a number of stakeholders and has therefore amended the service definition by removing the last two elements of the UK-wide Numbers definition that were set out in the July document. Removing these elements does not materially impact on the technical features of 03 calls and in the same way as calls can be made now from 08 numbers, there is no reason why 03 numbers cannot be used similarly. Ultimately Ofcom’s aim is to provide 03 as a range which offers consumers the same pricing arrangements as geographic numbers but retains the valued service-related features of non-geographic numbers. Ofcom has therefore decided to remove these additional parts of the service description for 03 calls from the Plan.

And The '03' number allocation process says:

1.4 The statement explains the final Plan service description for 03 numbers, which will be called ‘UK-wide’ numbers. Potential applicants for 03 numbers may wish to note the following changes to our July 2006 proposals:
• The definition of ‘UK-wide number’ now excludes the following elements:
‘(iii) number translation to a Geographic Number is involved; and
(iv) the service is not a Mobile Service.’

So, if I understand this correctly, it is now possible for mobile providers to allow their customers to have 03 numbers to terminate directly onto their mobiles without the need for NTS to translate to the 07 mobile number. This means that calls can be made from the mobile handset and the 03 number will be presented on the receiver's CLI display. Presumably the mobile subscriber will have to pay for incoming calls.

So why does (ii) prohibit the use of these numbers for direct connection to fixed landlines but not mobiles? Would it be better (and possible) to let them be available to landline customers if they want. I appreciate that they may have to pay to receive calls, but it would allow those small businesses who only have 1 or a couple of lines and who aren't interested in the routing and call statistics provided by NTS to have such a number. It would also allow these businesses to present their 03 numbers as their CLI.

If point (ii) remains, then these businesses will have to use a VoIP solution, assuming one were to come into existance and assuming that this would be cheaper than a NTS that routes to their 01/02 number. In that case, there would also have be a solution that would allow them to present their 03 number as CLI.

If point (ii) were to be removed, it would make the unique selling point of 03 numbers that they are geographically charged non-geographical numbers, with little limitation on how they can be used.

Is there any reason why 03 numbers should not be provided to landline customers?

bunking_off

Dave

You've lost me.

The text of (ii) says

(ii) the location of the Customer’s Apparatus identified by a given Telephone Number at the time of use is not necessarily permanently associated with a particular Network Termination Point;

The key word here is "necessarily". I don't see anything in these rules which stops communications providers assigning 03 numbers to fixed lines if there's a demand. Whether there's a demand is another point completely...

DonnyDave

bunking_off wrote: »

The key word here is "necessarily". I don't see anything in these rules which stops communications providers assigning 03 numbers to fixed lines if there's a demand. Whether there's a demand is another point completely...

I think I've been misreading that. My (mis)understanding was derived from reading the sentence without the word "necessarily" in!

DonnyDave

There is mention in the document of pre-call announcements for 070 numbers that are charged above 20p/min or 20p/call. Ofcom appear to have settled for a compromise whereby the announcement will give the network operator's retail price. So any reseller CPs that uses its network will also get this same message. This is because it is apparently too complex for the message to give each individual reseller's call rates.

Aside from the possible legal implications of giving incorrect pricing information, what happens when a network operator's rates fall below the threshold but the reseller's is above? Can the message be played only to the reseller's customers? And vice versa, when the network operator charges above, but the reseller does not?

Whilst Ofcom accepts that it is too complex for one network operator to play different messages to customers of different resellers, it doesn't explain whether it is possible for announcements to be played or not be played depending on whether the caller's CP charges above a certain rate or not, when one or more reseller CPs use another telco's network.

diamonds

how can I obtain a 03 number?

bunking_off

You can't yet. They haven't even been given out to the telecoms providers, and the internal industry processes for getting them enabled will take approx 3-4 months after that.

If you want one, register your interest with your friendly neighbourhood telecoms provider for when they become available. (Incidentally if you already have an 08 number, they'll probably be able to give you a migration path to the equivalent 03 number, ie only one digit of the number changes).

Heinz

Roll on the first few - then the oft-heard phrase, "It's only the same as a local call" can be countered much more simply with, "No, that's what 03 numbers are. 08 number are disguised premium rate."

DonnyDave

Heinz wrote: »

Roll on the first few - then the oft-heard phrase, "It's only the same as a local call" can be countered much more simply with, "No, that's what 03 numbers are. 08 number are disguised premium rate."

That would be oh so simple. Ofcom (in the recent consultation) wants make it a national call where providers differentiate. :eek: