Dad living in my house - is he a tenant?

cuffey

Paddyz - exactly the point, and I have asked her to produce it, because I don't have a copy if it ever existed. I'm not trying to deny her investment, I'm trying to make sure I do the right thing.

19lottie82

Any update on this one OP?

cuffey

Yes - quite a lot has happened in the last few weeks!

I have taken some legal advice, and I am about to go ahead with the eviction process to get my father out of my flat. I discovered that he had been withholding quite a lot of important paperwork that had come addressed to me . . . long story, but I managed to get it off him in the end. I also found a tenancy agreement that he signed in 2007 in order to be able to claim HB (his claim failed). The solicitor says this is however a valid agreement and technically I could get him out on section 8 (rent arrears). I think I will go for section 21, and let her deal with the process - sort of keep it at arms length. Quicker the better now.

The initial issue at the start of this thread concerned the mortgage. The building society have now written to me and say they believe I have a tenant. I have rung them today and explained the situation. This was the advice from the solicitor in any case, but it's made me get on with it!

The BS now say they want to know what my father pays for . . . . but they were not entirely clear what this really covers - I don't know what his utility bills come to for instance. I am reluctant to start investigating it all too deeply with him - I'll have to play it by ear.

If anyone has any experience of what it is they might want to know (because frankly they weren't very clear!) it'd be useful to know.

With any luck he'll be out of my place soon - then our plan is to live there part of the week and do it up, get it on the market and get rid of it.

I wondered if it might be worth selling it by auction?

19lottie82

Thanks for the update OP, I'm glad things are moving along.
Have you told your father that you plan to start eviction proceedings? From your previous posts I don't expect him to go quietly! What about the side of things that involve your mother?

If you want a quick sale, an estate agent might be able to advise if a low FP or sale at auction would be your best bet. Good luck and well done with getting things this far along!

BigAunty

What rent arrears does he have? I thought he'd paid you £100 a month as you mutually agreed - how much does he owe?

The Section 8 will only work on mandatory grounds if he owes 2 lots of monthly rent (if the rental period is monthly) at the time of serving and at the time of the court case. Some tenants pay the arrears down to under 2 months just before the court case and this means the judge can't award possession to the landlord on a mandatory basis - in other word, the tenant still owes money but has sabotaged the possession case. This is why some landlords have a belt and braces approach and serve both S8 and S21.

As for selling it at an auction, I'm not sure if you can do this if there is an outstanding mortgage on it but other members may know for sure.

I believe that he's made it rather uninhabitable. Some local councils operate grants to restore empty properties into use but there are usually various conditions in place, such as having been empty for x period first, the landlord must then rent it out for at least x years after.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...


With any luck he'll be out of my place soon ..

How did you get on showing him flats in the local area, retirement social housing, his Local Housing Allowance rate for a 1 bedroom property, an offer to pay the deposit on the next place in order to bribe him out?

Doubt he'll be in a hurry to give up a flat costing about £20 a week which he destroyed without any intervention - perhaps he'll try the social housing route like your mother who is thought to have concealed her capital and her ownership of the property in order to get a council place?

Some tenants view an S21 as a way of catapulting themselves into social housing via the homelessness route. They present the notice to the local council saying they have nowhere to live in the near future. In response, as councils can't house everyone served notice by a landlord, they often tell tenants to ignore the notice and stay put until the landlord has got a court order.

So your timeline could be something along the lines of a minimum of 3 months to almost 6 months to get him out if he won't go of his own volition.

- up to 3 months for the S21 to expire (S8 has an accelerated process I believe) as it's 2 months' in duration if the rental period is monthly, timed to expire with the notice period, so if you've just missed a rental period, it's closer to 3 months.

- up to 6 weeks to get a court case seeking possession (turnaround time depends on the court's waiting times)

- if granted possession, the tenant then gets a few weeks longer in the property before having to leave but can plead their case to stay for a few more weeks. I forget the maximum duration from the landlord being awarded possession in court to a tenant having to leave the property.

- if the tenant ignores it, the landlord must enforce it through court appointed bailiffs which might take up to a month to book, depending on their waiting list.

BigAunty

cuffey wrote: »

...long story, but I managed to get it off him in the end. I also found a tenancy agreement that he signed in 2007 in order to be able to claim HB (his claim failed). The solicitor says this is however a valid agreement and technically I could get him out on section 8 (rent arrears).

In your opening post, you said that no tenancy agreement existed?

So is this simply a document he faked to support his HB claim and which you didn't sign? Who signed the landlord section?

Out of curiosity and sheer nosiness, did he apply for the rent he paid you (£100) or the maximum local housing allowance rate for a 1 bedroom property?

cuffey

Yes - you're quite right.

I had completely forgotten about it - but I found it when I was looking for something else - I did sign it, and it's witnessed. In 2007 he tried to get housing benefit - and failed because the council said it was 'not a commercial arrangement'. I had assumed that it was worthless - and also he made it out for 18 months, so I sort of thought it had expired. (Yes - I know, naive - I did say!) The solicitor asked if I there was an agreement - I produced this document and she was very smiley!! She said it's valid, and he's technically agreed to pay £575 a month - so yes, quite a lot of arrears. Obviously I'm not going to chase for that, but yes, grounds for rent arrears in theory apparently. It does however mean that he is a tenant (so that's that question answered!!).

He's asked me not to contact him any more, so I haven't. He and my mother continued the abuse for a while, but have been very quiet the last fortnight as I have totally ignored it.

I've come clean with the Building Society - and now have to deal with their questions. Hopefully by the time they have agreed to a consent to let, I will not longer have a tenant!! We will go and spend as much time at the flat as possible once he's vacated to bring it up to scratch.

I haven't told him about the eviction - but I have told him that I was going to see a solicitor, so he may have guessed.

My brother has been to see them and is happily stirring up trouble - my dad is telling him that he thinks because he lives there he has a claim on the flat as well as my mother, but she's hidden all the paperwork at my sisters. This is, quite clearly, rubbish. If I hadn't had my GF supporting me I would have believed all this. The solicitor says he can't have an 'equitable interest' because he's signed a tenancy agreement. Also, I have signed a new lease, and neither of them objected, or asked to declare an interest. This would be in my favour if either of them tried to take me to court to claim an interest - and this would cost them a lot.

I've signed the new lease a month ago and chased the solicitor dealing with this and the purchase of the freehold today. The sooner they get my interest in this protected the better.

For the first time in my life, I feel as if I am standing up to people who have never really had my interests at heart and have used me, and undermined me. I realise it's going to be a horrible time - which is why I am doing it using a professional, not trying to deal with them directly. I feel strangely liberated.

Pretty much all the excellent advice I have received on here has been confirmed by the solicitor, including the distinct possibility that my mother has shot herself in the foot by squirrelling the money away and claiming benefits. So she can make a fuss, but the benefits agency would then have to be informed.

sonastin

Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear that you are coming out on the right side of things now. Cherish the GF - she has freed you to live whatever life you choose now! If you are lucky you'll be able to mend things with you family in the long run and have an amicable relationship. But that should not be top of your list right now. Make sure you get yourself sorted before worrying about where they fit in.

I hear all that time that "family is important". I'm lucky to have a family that looks out for each other even when we don't particularly like each other. My OH comes from a particularly toxic family. I've never met his siblings and his mother is quite possibly the most selfish person I've ever come across. I can't get my mother to see that he is a happier person when he doesn't contact his mother because to her "family is important". Watching their relationship, I've learnt that family is only important if it is a mutually caring relationship. Make sure that they are capable of considering your interests before you let them back into your heart - otherwise you'll always be disappointed by them.

BigAunty

How are you getting on, OP?

The notice you issued to your father is bound to expire in the next month or so (sooner if it was issued on S8, rent arrear grounds rather than an S21). Any feedback on whether your father will leave of his own volition or might you have to take him to court?