Cheap motoring with "classics"

Joe_Horner

Following from a couple of comments on another thread I thought it would be worth starting a thread on just how cheap motoring can still be if you're willing to give up a few modern luxuries and run something a little older.

This certainly won't appeal to all but it's worth considering, especially if you're handy with a set of spanners to keep maintenance costs down, because the possible savings can be enormous. Sure, you may use a bit more fuel (though probably not as much as you'd think) but you can save money on just about everything else including purchase, lack of depreciation, insurance and maintenance / repairs.

So, what do I mean by "something a little older"? I don't mean some 12 year old banger and I certainly don't mean a Model T Ford. But there is a whole world of "classics" between these two which can be very practical daily transport on a budget:

Most of the BL range (don't laugh!) from the 60's / 70s fall into this category and are steadily gaining some of the love they never received at the time. The obvious classics like MGs, Triumph Herald / Vitesse are likely to be outside the "budget" range if you want a reasonable one but what about the Austins of the time?

The 1100 / 1300, Maxi and even (don't swear!) Allegro can all be had in very good condition for around the £1200 mark and there'll be virtually no depreciation on them (you might even be lucky and gain something over time) They're all more than capable of daily use, including a certain amount of "distance" work provided you don't want to sit at 70+ on a motorway all day, every day, and they all bring a nostalgic smile to people's faces in a Tesco car park.

Or maybe a Triumph from the Dolomite / Toledo range? Apart from the Sprint, these can be had for around £1500 in great condition, or as little as £3 - 400 if you're happy to run something a little tatty (but solid) and prepared to hunt around.

Or go really out on a limb, as we did, and fall in love with a little belt-driven Daf, which the most you'll pay for is about £1k in almost show-room condition (if you can find one, of course)!

So where does the money saving come into all of this?

First of all, classic insurance is cheap. As an example, my partner only passed her test about 3 1/2 years ago and, when I added her to my £95 a year (fully comp) policy on our first Daf the only cost was a £20 admin fee! Our daughter had one when she passed her test and, as a newly qualified 20 year old, her insurance was £350. I challenge anyone to come up with anything cheaper than that! Many classics policies have conditions such as it being a "second" car, or not being used for commuting, but many do allow normal use as your only car at prices that will honestly amaze you. Even through the comparison sites, try running a quote for (say) a 1976 Triumph Dolomite 1500 and see how it compares to what you're paying at the moment!

Next, fuel. Despite scare stories in the late '80s, many of these cars will run quite happily on unleaded without spending £££ on modifications. Some will thank you for using a fuel additive, but others really couldn't care less. Real world fuel consumption is also not as bad as you might think. Of the 3 cars we've run, our 1972 Daf 33 has averaged 34mpg over the past 25k miles (mostly local stuff), my 1969 Triumph 1300 has averaged 32mpg but gets around 40mpg on long distance runs towing a trailer tent, and our 1966 Daf Daffodil has shown a 38mpg average, with 48mpg on runs in the year we've had it (that one was a free to good home btw :P )

Tax can also be cheap as long as you stick to smaller engines because most come under the "tax by engine size" system. Unless you get something pre-'73 (like all of ours) in which case it's free

As for maintenance, this is where you can really save. These cars were designed at a time when owner maintenance was not only know of but generally expected. There is virtually NOTHING you can't do on them yourself if you're mechanically inclined and have a Haynes Manual + a reasonable tool set. OK, so you spend time under a bonnet that you could be doing something else with but you also get to know your car, you get to know all it's little foibles, and you get to save £30 or more for every hour you spend there. Spare parts are generally cheaper than modern equivalents and, apart from service items like plugs and points (remember those???) seem to be needed less often than on moderns.

So how do the actual numbers stack up? I can't give a general answer to that but I can give a couple of specific examples:

Before we got bitten by the Classics bug we had a new Mitsubishi Colt diesel on Motability because of my partner's arthritis. The overall running costs of that over the 3 years we had it worked out at 36 pence per mile over 36000 miles.

Since then, the 1972 Daf has done most of our family mileage and, over 25k miles, has worked out at a total cost (inc everything) of 24p per mile. That's a saving of £3000, or around £1000 per year, compared to if we'd kept the "cheap" lease deal on a modern econobox!

verityboo

There is the safety aspect to consider. I would much prefer to be in a modern car if a big truck or van ploughed into the back of me because the driver was on their mobile

Joe_Horner

Fair point, but you also tend to become far more aware of what's happening around you in an older car (it's a mild version of the "spike on the steering wheel" effect) and avoid the "other person caused it" accidents as a result. Why do you think classic insurance is so cheap? Mainly because they tend not to get involved in accidents

eta: You also generally have MUCH better visibility without modern 6 inch thick pillars so get more chance to see & avoid!

Lum

It's worth bearing in mind that 80s cars and early 90s cars now count as classics for insurance purposes.

90s Japanese cars are pretty damn reliable, a lot more so than modern ones, and can still be worked on by yourself for the most part, only thing you can't do by hand is the ECU but on the 90s cars these are pretty simple devices that don't really fail.

To my mind it's the best of both worlds, you get the huge efficiency advantage of moving from points to EFI but you don't have the massive overcomplication of modern EFI systems which are only a little bit more efficient. You also get a better degree of safety as many cars of this era had optional airbags fitted and decent chassis design.

There's also the fact that most of these cars are just at the tail end of the "old banger" phase of a car's life and for most people aren't yet considered "modern classics" in the way that 80s cars now are, so you can still pick up a half decent one for cheap. Classic car insurance generally requires the car to be 15-20 years old so is still a valid option.

citykid5

good thread.i think classic cars do make a lot of sence for some?
insurance.i always thought that you had to be 21 years old to get classic car insurance.
costs.my current car a 2001 seat arosa 1.4tdi does 60mpg atound town and upto 80 on a run,costs 30 to tax,and £165 insurance.in the past i've always had citroen 2cv's and love there simplicity reliabilty and genral fun motoring,and i do have a inkling now to own one.but common sence is telling me to stick with my seat.

Joe_Horner

The specialist classic insurers used to say 21 (or 25 in some cases) but most would still find pretty competetive "normal" quotes for younger drivers. Several are now offering classic policies for over-18s but it's a case of shopping round to find them.

Out of interest, our daughter's policy was a "normal" one from Yes! but the car still made it far cheaper than anything else she looked at (she's now moved on to a Rover 416 and that £350 has gone up to over £800 despite now having a year no claims!)

Strider590

Good concept, old cars and classics are largely no less efficient than their modern overweight equivalents. But unfortunately you won't convince this consumerism and social class driven society

System

it does work out fairly cheap if you are willing to put in the time for maintenence - I have a 1996 mini on a classic policy, insurance is 230quid fully comp (with an agreed value for the car) although in general you don't get a no claims bonus with a classic policy - tax is 130 for the year and you can only fit about 20 quid of petrol in at any time!!
but you do need to look after it, no point in getting a classic and then paying someone to maintain it, will probably cost you more than a modern car!

CKhalvashi

My father actually made his own car, from an AutoVaz bottom (although the wheels came from an Opel Viva) when my parents were planning to come to the UK.

It was driven up as RHD on Soviet plates that I still have somewhere (Yes, I really am that old), and plated in the UK abut 6 months after our arrival in West London! Photo album can be found here, If you discount the pics of my Scenic (which was brand new at the time, now a local taxi).

I tend to run S-Maxes now, as they’re a good size for what we want, however I’ve got a ’90’ Lexus LS400, which is in perfect condition. Had a Soarer, and 2 other LS’s before this. :cool:

Thinking about swapping Lexy (what my daughter called it) for an ’80’s Merc now!

mikey72

Joe_Horner wrote: »

The specialist classic insurers used to say 21 (or 25 in some cases) but most would still find pretty competetive "normal" quotes for younger drivers. Several are now offering classic policies for over-18s but it's a case of shopping round to find them.

Out of interest, our daughter's policy was a "normal" one from Yes! but the car still made it far cheaper than anything else she looked at (she's now moved on to a Rover 416 and that £350 has gone up to over £800 despite now having a year no claims!)

My daugther had her own insurance on her classic mini at 17, but the insurer has stopped offering cover for that age this year.
She switched to a mainstream insurer at 18, still under £600 for both though.
She has been a named driver on mine though, from 18 on.

I did all the ball joints, disks and brakes, and the rubber boots with her, and we replaced the water pump, thernostat, and belt and flushed it through when we bought it, and after that she just changes the oil every 3000 miles.

It's ran perfectly, started every day last winter, (took a while to defrost though), got through all the snow, and passed the mot first time.
It does over 50mpg, and it's gone up in value by about £500.

My lastest one was just over £300, excellent 80's Renault, £100 of welding on the sill for the mot, and again, on ebay they're at least £500 for even a runner.
£120 mainstream insurance as my first car.

Now looking for a bay window VW camper.

mikey72

Strider590 wrote: »

Good concept, old cars and classics are largely no less efficient than their modern overweight equivalents. But unfortunately you won't convince this consumerism and social class driven society

You really need to change your mates.