Primary class size appeal

catliz

I wonder if u could give me some advise please. I am moving twenty miles to a new area and have applied to the catchment primary school (opposite my new house). My oldest child was successful in yr3 but my youngest not successful in reception to the class sizes exceeding the allowed amount. I know that this is nr impossible to win but the alternative school has very poor offsted reports and is not in a good area (wold not buy a house there!) although it is in walking distance so no argument there either. the school did use to have three rec classes but reduced them and a new housing estate was built and added to catchment! they have two classes of 30 and 33 currently but argue if they accept my son they will need to close the library to open a new class eventually........ help please my appeal is 9th feb

svince80

If a school has had a poor OFSTED inspection, there will be lots of interventions from the Local Authority to improve it, there may be a new Senior Leadership team in place and so on. You need to look at how recent an OFSTED inspection too, a report from 3 years ago may tell you nothing about a school now. Have you visited the schools?

mirrorimage0

i know it used to be that if they had been oversubscribed before then they can be made to do it again, ie one class has 33 then why not the other if you see what i mean.

FBaby

To be honest, if the other school is within walking distance, and no proper reason as to why the other school is not appropriate for your child (beyond the ofsted report), then I think your chances are close to nil.

I found myself in a very similar situation to you last year. I decided to move with my partner and requested a place for my two children in our local school. It is a massive school (6 classes per year) so didn't expect any problems...well, to my surprise, there were no places for them and instead was given a place in a school who was on remedial measures on a not so good neighborhood. i was horrified especially as my children were both qualified G&T... I discovered that the local school was totally full because it priorities all the local feeder schools... feeder schools which accepted just about anyone as they are three of them...which means that those who would have gone to the bad school applied for a place in one of these feeder schools giving them priority to the senior school, giving no chance to new local kids to access it. The rule about feeder school is ridiculous, but nothing that I could do about it. I tried to talk to people, but all told me that an appeal would be a complete waste of time, but reassured me that the 'bad' school was actually not a bad school at all, that they had got rid of the headmaster and that being on remedial measures had actually meant that they were getting a lot of resources and they advised I went and visited it. In the end, I decided to do just that before starting to look at private schools, to my big surprise, I really really liked it. I was very impressed with the welcome of the headmaster, the dedication of the teacher who showed us around and thought the kids were very behaved. I felt a lot more reassured after that visit. In the meantime, ofsted went again (after only 5 months) and amazingly, gave it a 2 from remedial measures.... my son started there last September and I just could praise that school any more. I was delighted with the school they were at before, but I have to say that academically, this one is much better. My son is in Y4 and is already working at level 5 in maths, very much encourage by his teacher. The kids are lovely, well behaved, and i later realised that the neighborhood is actually not as bad as I thought it was. My son is happy there, although he still misses his old friends.

The waiting list at the local school has now gone done and I am debating whether to put his name on the list. The main issue is childcare. At the moment, he goes to a private morning/afterschool club that cost a fortune and isn't on site, so he can't do afterschool activies. It would also save me 20 minutes drive as the current club/school is totally out of my way whereas the local school is on my way to work. If he went to the local one, he could do whatever activity he wishes and go to the on site afterschool club, paying only for that session. My DD secondary school is also right next to it and she could take him/picking up on occasions. This school has a score of 1 from ofsted, but I've now realised that these scores really don't mean that much (the old scool was a 2, and yet I would certainly rate his new school better than the old one). Beside the stress of changing him again (only if he agreed), what worries me is that I might actually not think as highly of the local school in terms of education and being academically challenged.

What I would say is go visit the other school, speak to people and get a real feel of what that other school is like, in the meantime, put your child on the waiting list. The fact his sibling is already there is bound to push him higher on the waiting list anyway?

svince80

FBaby wrote: »

This school has a score of 1 from ofsted, but I've now realised that these scores really don't mean that much (the old scool was a 2, and yet I would certainly rate his new school better than the old one).

In terms of OFSTED, 1 is outstanding and 2 is good, so 1 IS better than 2.

GobbledyGook

svince80 wrote: »

In terms of OFSTED, 1 is outstanding and 2 is good, so 1 IS better than 2.

It means that on the days of the inspections OFSTED thought one school was better than the other. It doesn't mean that any day after that the same is necessarily true.

OP have you been to visit the other school?

I work within schools and sometimes the gradings they get baffle me. We have one school that has been rated outstanding that I wouldn't send my children too if you paid me. Yes, academically they get a lot from the children, but at the cost of everything else. The children are terrified of the HT (as are the staff) and some of the measures are draconian imo (children not allowed play time for failing a test for example). It's an appalling school if you look at the bigger picture imo. Another school has a warm and friendly staff, the children achieve higher than average but they make sure that even children who are likely to pull the average down still get the chance to sit and they deal with the whole child much, much better. Yet is was rated as 'good' when it is, to anyone who actually sets foot in the place with not just purely academic scores in mind, clearly the better school.

OFSTED ratings are a guide. The difference between two schools that got a 1 and a 2 could be extremely minimal - the 2 could have just missed out on getting a 1 and the 1 may have just scraped it. Obviously the opposite could be true - the 1 may have been an outstanding school and the 2 may have nearly been a 3. That is why you have to go and visit the schools, meet the HT's and - most importantly - see which fits your child better.

Don't solely rely on the opinion of OFSTED. The picture that they get on days where the whole school is on edge because of the inspection is just a very tiny snapshot.

TeamLowe

mirrorimage0 wrote: »

i know it used to be that if they had been oversubscribed before then they can be made to do it again, ie one class has 33 then why not the other if you see what i mean.

Things have changed since the government restricted the size of an infant class to 30, the school can not just up the size of a class of its own accord.
the 3 extra children in the second class will be 'permitted exceptions' (usually children who have won appeals) and basically the school does not have to do anything about them for a school year. next year, they will no longer be permitted exceptions and if the class remains at 33 then a new class will have to be created to comply with infant class size regulations. so in theory in y1 the school could have 2 classes of 30 and one of 3, although obviously they wouldn't actually structure it like that.

If challenged on what the plan for next year is, the Education Authority will usually say, in the case of a small number, that they expect the natural changes in a school year to remedy this- ie they feel it is reasonable to expect that in the reception year 3 pupils could leave, taking that class back to 30

OP, i would not mention your dislike of the alternative school. your appeal only concerns the school in question and the reasons why it is the only suitable school for your child

Good luck and i don't want to give you false hope but whilst the law is very very strict on infant class appeals, it really does depend on the panel on the day how they interpret it.

catliz

Thankyou, I visited both schools today and actually liked the 'not so good school' more, it just felt much more welcoming. It has a mixed Reception and pre school though is this good or bad would the reception children get less one to one??