Constructive Dismissal for Child Care, Flexible working and Employment TribunL

oopsadaisydoddle

Hi there,

Hopefully can get some advice. I currently have a flexible working agreement whereby I work 2 x full time days and therefore pay for 2x full time days for 1 child in child care during term time. My employer had just undergone a shift rearrangement and they are basically wanting me to work 4x part time shifts.

Taking into consideration extra child care and travel costs, we would be £220 per month worse off on average. That £220 for us is the difference between having some enjoyment and just existing. This also takes into account the small increased help we would get from TC's.

I am in a union and we are due to have a grievance hearing soon however, I really don't think the company will budge due to what other people have been through. If they don't budge, then I'm gonna be either forced to work and lose all that money or leave and be a little bit worse off than that. The union have mentioned tribunal but it worries me that the tribunal will not think that losing £220 per month would be too detrimental and that I would just have to put up and shut up. Just wondered if anyone knew how it all works and whether this would be the kind of thing worth going to tribunal for. Also, what kind of evidence would I need to provide? Quite happy to do a statement of affairs type of thing if that would be necessary.

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

KiKi

I could be wrong on this, but I'll pose it and see what the legal eagles think.

If you have a flexible working agreement, that's a formal change to your contract. Your employer can change your contract when there's a good business reason why, by giving notice. Assuming they give notice correctly, and within the law, I'm not sure that the fact that you have to pay for childcare differently is their problem - nor that you have to pay for travel.

I completely appreciate that it inconveniences you, but a tribunal will look at whether or not they have broken the law in respect of their actions.

You'd have to resign for constructive dismissal, and as fewer than 3% of cases are won, you certainly want to be sure of your case. Obv your union are helping so that's good, but I'm not sure that you'd even have a case here, if they have a good reason for changing your contract in the first place, and give correct notice.

Perhaps one of the legal people will come along and correct me!!!

All the best with it.
KiKi

oopsadaisydoddle

Thanks for replying. The union seem to think that it costing me more to come to work is one of the reasons for going down the constructive dismissal route. When I applied and was accepted for my flexible working, it was with my childcare costs taken into consideration.

Obviously it is never clear cut, but there is no reason I can't do the hours that I'm currently doing - they need to be worked - just that the company cannot be bothered to find a way around it as far as we can see. There are numerous people who work there so there is no reason that it can't be accommodated. Also there are many other depts I could be moved to but again, they just don't want to budge.

Emmzi

actually, your childcare costs have and always will be your problem. Your employer does not have to care about them one iota.

Hours are more of an issue. But in a flexible working application the onus is on YOU to show a workable alternative that is not to the detriment of the business. So you come up with the alternative - not them. Not good saying they aren't trying as they don't have to; they just have to respond to your suggestions. If you aren't making any other than "it doesn't suit me" then you'll get nowhere.

Can you re-do your request in view of the moved goalposts and ask for reconsideration formally?

LittleMissGiggles123

Constructive dismissal is apparently very hard to prove, or so I've heard & based on the previous posters comment regarding 3% of cases won, it doesnt give you much hope.

I could be wrong but I think you would have to prove that they have created such difficult circumstances that you had no other choice but to leave. I'm not sure your case reflects that.

But I am no expert & please wait for other more experienced people to give their views too, because they could give a better insight into it.

I hope it gets sorted

x

oopsadaisydoddle

I always thought in a flexible working request, so long as you met the criteria for application, then the onus was on the company to provide you with a valid reason for rejecting your proposal. Obviously with discussions either side.

Again, I don't know how it all works but as I say the union have said that they can ask you to change your hours but any request has to be reasonable and to go from 2 days to 4, with the burden of having to find additional child care (not just the costs), is classed as unreasonable.

LittleMissGiggles123

Sorry to post again, but saw Emmzi's post after my previous message. It is a good suggestion that you put in a new request for flexible working & then they will have to give a sound business reason to reject.

x

Emmzi

oopsadaisydoddle wrote: »

I always thought in a flexible working request, so long as you met the criteria for application, then the onus was on the company to provide you with a valid reason for rejecting your proposal. Obviously with discussions either side.

If your request says "only working tuesdays because it suits me" then the company can just say "ah, no, but tuesday is our quietest day, it doesn't suit us" and that is it.

If it is more like "I would like to work a condensed week of 30 hours over M - Th and not work Fridays, as my work is not urgent on Fridays an answering machine could be installed to take calls which I will respond to on the Monday. Six staff work on a Friday and my usual locking up duties could easily be allocated on a rota basis on Fridays" then it is harder to say "that's impossible."

don't know if that helps clarify what an application should look like if it is more likely to be successful?

Googlewhacker

I would seriously start suggesting looking for a new job. The application for a new flexible working is irrelevant because they would have to provide a valid business reason for altering the contract in the first place for fear of being taken to a tribunal

SarEl

I am afraid that I have to "legally eagly" agree with Emmzi entirely. Your union appear - on the face of what you have said here - to be on the wrong planet. Structures of work patterns are not about what you want - the starting point is what the employer needs. They care nothing about your childcare costs (and more importantly, neither do a tribunal).

oopsadaisydoddle

Thanks for all the responses. I had a feeling it was a bit too good to be true re what the union said. Just kind of makes me wonder why they tell you one thing when in fact it's far from true! They are supposed to have taken legal advice too!!

I had kind of resigned myself to doing the new hours and taking the hit money wise but thought it was worth checking out. Such a shame it'll hardly be worth me working now - would actually not be much worse by giving up work. I've never been out of work though and I'd hate to think I was unemployed!