Being threatened by bailiffs for debt that isn't mine...

binary_finary

Hi everyone, pretty worried right now and can see that this forum offers some good answers. Thought it best to make a new topic as my situation is quite unusual.

I lived in a house in London, firstly a student house, then a shared house after graduating with 3 other uni mates.

At the time I was unemployed and on benefit. Due to this situation, I moved back home (up t'north) last December.

Unfortunately, during the time I was living there, none of my housemates paid any council tax. They've since vanished and the only forwarding address LB of Barnet have is my mum's, where I'm now living.

So over a year down the line, I get a demand for payment. Phone them, up explain the situation, admit no liability/give nothing away/etc. and they say they'll contact Barnet.

Now, a week down the line, Barnet have indeed agreed that I was receiving council tax benefit for the entire time. But what they've done is merely adjust the amount.

As far as they're concerned, me and my three housemates all live here and it's our house.

I understand we're jointly liable, but I do not owe this money and couldn't afford it even if I did..

My Mum is ill with MS and depression (the latter being far worse) and terrified about her possessions being removed, especially her car.

I've tried to explain it to her and rang the debt company (Newlyn) again today. After much explaining, whilst also refusing to give them any details such as my Mum's name, phone numbers (the usual tricks these people play), they said they're pursuing action and the bailiffs will be here in the next few days.

Now:
1. Part of me thinks this is scaremongering. At our student house, none of us owed council tax (being students) but LB of Brent were so dis-organised they kept pursuing us. Bailiffs even came to the house a few times, laughed at the situation and apologised for bothering us. When we moved to Barnet, we were getting letters from Brent (or bailiffs operating on their behalf) much like I am now. We knew it was such a stupid situation we just laughed and threw them in the bin. No-one ever came to the house despite repeated threats and my only real annoyance was Brent wasting tax-payers money paying bailiff companies to go after people who weren't liable for council tax.

Similar situation here?

2. If they do turn up, as I've said to Newlyn, what can they do? I own nothing, it isn't my house, I have no money, what do they expect to get? I said this to Newlyn and the agent just got flustered and said "you'd be surprised what we find". I resisted the urge to reply "a house, car and contents that aren't mine".

I worry though about them clamping or removing my mum's car, forcing entry or even just my Mum needing hospital treatment through living in fear. She's already sitting only in the kitchen, has the blinds drawn and refuses to answer the door.

The fact is, legally I don't have a leg to stand on, I understand that. I'm liable and until I contact my ex-housemates (IF I can) I'm the only one liable.

This is a terrible thing to be going through. I've been in debt with a bank loan for some time, but through hard work (I'm lucky to have a menial job, many graduates don't) I've paid most of this off and will be debt free in around 6 months. Now I'm getting all the things I worried about for a debt that isn't mine!

I'm quite a political chap, I loved the story about the bloke on the Wirral who refused to pay council tax at all as he "had no contract with them" and claimed to be a "freeman on the land", etc. Very empowering, but not something I'd risk doing, not least because of his lengthy court case. But I wonder, as he got away with refusing to pay council tax he did really owe, how hard can it be to refuse to pay council tax I don't really owe.

I need some help and advice, thanks for reading and hopefully I can get some answers that will allow my Mum to sleep tonight.

nicedream_2

That situation sucks. I'm sorry.

Can you not trying and track down your flatmates at all - through facebook? I can't offer much help but do you not have any proof to show you weren't living there at that time? The estate agent might be able to help you.

binary_finary

nicedream wrote: »

That situation sucks. I'm sorry.

Can you not trying and track down your flatmates at all - through facebook? I can't offer much help but do you not have any proof to show you weren't living there at that time? The estate agent might be able to help you.

I did live there at the time, but I was receiving full council tax benefit, they (both Barnet Council and Newlyn) have recognised and confirmed this (would it be an idea to get this in writing?) but say that doesn't matter, we're all still liable. Or rather, I'm solely liable, as I'm the only one they can contact.

A few options I've since thought of:
1. Sending them a letter saying something along the lines of "any further contacts regarding this debt constitutes a course of conduct, which is a criminal offence under Section 2 of The Prevention from Harassment Act 1997" because I "do not recognise this debt". After all, I've not signed a contract with Newlyn. A little political I know, but worth a try?

2. Getting my Mum to claim I no longer live here and she doesn't know my whereabouts. Seems dodgy but this is some bailiff company, not HMRC.

I should point out, I have limited contact with one of my ex-housemates, regarding a joint loan, which as I say I'm paying off as is he. Unfortunately it all goes through his accountant, who obviously can't advise on this matter. None of them reply to texts or phonecalls. They're basically trying to ignore this, knowing full well they're off the hook. I can't afford to take them to court either.

hallowitch

your immediate problem is the bailiff

tell your mum to enjoy her house and to stop sitting in the kitchen the bailiff cant touch anything belonging to her

Your mum can go a solicitor and get a statutory declaration cost (£5/10)

she asks for 1 original and 3 notarised copy's
1) notarised copy sent recored delivery to newylns
and a copy to the local authority's that are chasing the debt (record)

if you want (because it not your mums debt)you may want to inform them (the council) that your mother is not the debtor she is however ill (provide proof ) they should then recall the debt as you are a vulnerable house hold and your mother should not be penalised (made worse ) because of your debt

RAS

binary

Please can pm CIS, who works in Council Tax.

I am really sorry to say that I think, based on some of CIS' previous posts, that even though you were entitled to full council tax benefit yourself, because your housemates f$$ked off without paying the Council tax, you remain jointly and severally liable for the whole debt.

However, as hallowitch said, the bailiffs cannot touch anything mum owns including her car.

They cannot break into the house but you have to make sure that doors and windows are locked.

Anyway you can trace the other housemates?

binary_finary

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Having had time to think more about this, I'm largely thinking it's a lot of fuss about nothing. As I say, I've been in this situation before, endless letters and threats from bailiffs, but nothing happened.

Part of me just worries about what would happen if they did turn up. I imagine that given everything in the house and the car belongs to my Mum, if they did take anything (for whatever reason), they'd be in serious trouble?

I'm just looking for some advice, and I've been given some very good advice so far, so thanks again.

Will PM CIS, thanks for the tip.

CIS

I've received your PM and will take a look tonight when I get back from work.

CIS

that even though you were entitled to full council tax benefit yourself, because your housemates f$$ked off without paying the Council tax, you remain jointly and severally liable for the whole debt.

You are correct - in council tax legislation the payment of Council Tax Benefit has no effect on liability - its treated exactly the same as a cash payment would be.

Liability is determined with reference to section 6 of the Local government finance act 1992 , which with very few exceptions, determines liability only based on a persons responsibility for the property (owner/tenant etc). As far as I can see you were a joint tenant with 3 other people therefore you are all jointly liable for any council tax due, irrespective of any council tax benefit paid, and the council can chase any of you for the full balance due.

Anselm

Hi if you go to consumer action group they have lots of info on how to deal with bailiffs

RAS

binary_finary wrote: »

I should point out, I have limited contact with one of my ex-housemates, regarding a joint loan, which as I say I'm paying off as is he. Unfortunately it all goes through his accountant, who obviously can't advise on this matter. None of them reply to texts or phonecalls. They're basically trying to ignore this, knowing full well they're off the hook. I can't afford to take them to court either.

Hi

You need to advise all these ex friends that unless they pay, you will have to pass on their contact details to the bailiffs, or to the Council.

Otherwise you are going to be liable for their debt.

thesim

Seriously? Pass the other's details on. Be it just a phone number or whatever.