Not sure if this is the right place to post!

NikNox

Hi all

I'm not sure if this is the right forum in which to post this, or indeed if it's the right site!! But, I'm hoping someone with some knowledge of the law (if the law covers this) may be able to advise. So, here goes ....

My 13 year old stepdaughter left her alcoholic mother last July to live with us. We have full residence of her via the Courts. She left her mum in rather a hurry (due to mum's violent boyfriend assaulting a child), so didn't take any of her personal possessions. We had plenty of clothing here for her anyway, so weren't too bothered at the time. However, there were some items of value that she left in the house, including jewellery given to her by family, including 2 items that are of relatively high value. There are also sentimental items too. From about August last year, we started asking mum to bring items, particularly the jewellery, with her on visits. But, mum has only visited daughter 4 times in the last 7 months, and on each occasion, despite being reminded, has conveniently 'forgotten'. We asked her if we could drop by (without child as child is not permitted to enter the property for her own safety) to collect stuff and asked mum if she would bag it up so we just had to knock the door, collect and go. We have even suggested she takes the items to a third party's home and we could collect from there. All sorts of excuses have been given as to why this cannot happen, ranging from mum not having time to sort things out (she's unemployed) to she doesn't want us anywhere near her home. Now we believe that she has sold the items of value, as she's been known to sell the child's more expensive possessions in the past. We have put this to her, but she swears she hasn't, the items are safe and that daughter will be given them when she is 'of age'. Last October she lost her other child (not my husband's) as social services removed him from the home to live with his father, so we didn't hassle her for a month or so as she was going through enough. But, since the beginning of January we have begun asking for these items again, sporadically (i.e a text every now and then), but she is now accusing us of harassing her and says she will seek legal advice. Child is getting angry about not having her stuff back, and has herself text her mum telling her to bring them with her without fail. We have heard through the grapevine that mum has got rid of all clothes, but we don't mind about that.

So, where do we stand on this? Any ideas?

flutterby_lil

Sorry to here of the troubles - no idea or advice really but wanted to wish you and your husband well with your SD.

NAR

I would suggest a solicitor's letter, detailing the items that the step child wants returned. Not sure what actual legal redress there could be though if she says she has "thrown them out, assuming they were not wanted."

fannyanna

What a horrible situation.

I don’t really know the solution but as someone else has suggested perhaps a letter from a solicitor is the best solution.

On the basis that she’s accusing you or harassment already I think you need to tread very carefully.

mazza111

Can't advise either, just didn't want to read and run, poor child.

daska

TBH we found a solicitor's letter made no difference whatsoever to the attitude of DSD's mum (very similar situation). We had to get a Court Order to get DSD's passport out of her. The only difference being that the items left behind were not of high financial value. Our solicitor, who we thought was excellent reasoned thus: even if she does still have them, which is unlikely, the physical time, effort and expense incurred in getting them back is not worth it. In my humble experience, if you do something and tell the child what you're doing you're blackening mum's name and mum will call you a liar anyway and there's a good chance child will 'want' to believe mum. If you do something but don't say anything mum will preen and child will 'want' to think mum has suddenly had a change of character. In short, if you do something, it is likely to send the wrong message.

I would suggest that it's now time to back away and let them develop their new relationship. If you cloud the issue by repeatedly requesting things mum will dig her toes in. If you back away then either her mum has a change of heart and responds to her daughter's pleas or she doesn't. That's her choice. You are not letting DSD down by doing this her mother is. At 13 it's unlikely that your DSD will have the wool pulled over her eyes for much longer. At 16 my DSD is still occasionally trying to find a pair of rose-tinted glasses that fit, unfortunately every time she comes out with some romantic story about her mum cooking pancakes for breakfast every day or taking her to certain places we do have a tendency to lose the power of speech - usually cos our jaws are thudding to the floor while we struggle to come up with an appropriate response... at which point she goes "that didn't happen, did it" as she realises her mum has spun her another tale.

NikNox

Pretty much as I thought, but I did wonder if there was any legal obligation on mum to return things that don't belong to her, or any redress if she has indeed sold items that were given to my SD on special occasions or were/are family heirlooms. Like I said, we don't care about the clothes (they were pretty grotty anyway), but things that have financial or sentimental value are missed and she wants them back, which is fair enough. I should point out that in total, we have probably only asked 5 times for these items, but she construes everything as 'harassment', even asking her to visit her daughter!!!!!!!!

But, as Daska says, asking her for them is likely to result in toes being dug in. We do believe she has sold these items anyway, but she would never admit it, so it could be better to allow SD to continue to ask for them and for mum to continue to lie to her. It will be their relationship (which is actually very fragile at the moment due to mum repeatedly letting the child down by promising visits and then not turning up) she is ruining, all by herself, which we are happy to let her do.

Fortunately SD no longer views her mum through rose coloured specs, mum has let her down and disappointed her far too many times now and she sees her mum with total clarity. She refers to her as 'that woman' and as a 'psycho'. We do not encourage such references and tell her she should be more respectful, but she fairly points out 'why should I respect her when she doesn't respect me?'.

Ideally we would like mum to either hand over these items, or admit she's sold them. She would gain a lot more credance that way, even if she has sold them. It's the constant excuses that are bothersome to the poor kid, and her desire to have these items back is overwhelming at times. Having lived in the household where all spare money was spent on booze, she treasured things that other people gave her, and she's a sensitive, gentle girl who appreciates anything and everything. There is a bracelet with a pink diamond in it that was given to her by her paternal nan when she was christened, and she loves it. I think she would be happy just to get that back, but as it's the highest valued item it's likely to have been sold.

It should be criminal shouldn't it, refusing to return items or selling them?!

Errata

If your SD can now view her mum as she really is, her mum but with a truly dreadful problem that nobody can help her with, can you talk to her about the very high probability that mum's sold her things that had any value? Perhaps worth saying that her mum wouldn't have done it if she didn't have a big problem with alcohol, which has her in its grip and leaves her helpless to do the right thing sometimes.
Your SD has started a new chapter in her life, can you buy her a piece of jewellery to celebrate that so she has a keepsake to remind her?

RAS

NikNox wrote: »

Pretty much as I thought, but I did wonder if there was any legal obligation on mum to return things that don't belong to her, or any redress if she has indeed sold items that were given to my SD on special occasions or were/are family heirlooms. Like I said, we don't care about the clothes (they were pretty grotty anyway), but things that have financial or sentimental value are missed and she wants them back, which is fair enough. I should point out that in total, we have probably only asked 5 times for these items, but she construes everything as 'harassment', even asking her to visit her daughter.

Hi

Can I suggest that we keep right out of this?

Explain to your SD that if you and her dad ask questions, then mum will just treat that as interference in her relationship with SD.

If SD wants these items back, she needs to ask mum for them herself outright. FAce to face might make mum least comfortable.

If SD wants them that much she could write to mum herself.

Legally she could report the matter to the police if SD really wanted to do that, because it is theft.

But SD has to do the running on this and we have to keep out of it.

NikNox

RAS wrote: »

Hi

Can I suggest that we keep right out of this?

Explain to your SD that if you and her dad ask questions, then mum will just treat that as interference in her relationship with SD.

If SD wants these items back, she needs to ask mum for them herself outright. FAce to face might make mum least comfortable.

If SD wants them that much she could write to mum herself.

Legally she could report the matter to the police if SD really wanted to do that, because it is theft.

But SD has to do the running on this and we have to keep out of it.

She has asked her outright, albeit by text, and was told the items would be returned. Then she didn't see mum for 3 months from Sept to Dec. We don't think mum stayed away because of that, but it could have played a part. I don't thin she would want to ask mum face to face for the simple fact that mum is unpredictable in mood and could turn nasty, and as she only sees her mum for a couple of hours (they have spent just 10 hours together in 7 months) she wants that time to be as calm as possible. She is quite scared of her mum.

RAS

Is she seeing mum in a supervised place? Are SS still involved?

if SS are still involved, then ask them to speak to mum?

And Sd can write to mum and ask for the items.

In the end though, what matters most to her, her links to much loved members of the family or her links to mum?