Bad reference

Bluemeanie_2

If it was a council I would go with SarEl's advice. I work for a City Council, in a Manager role and there are strict policies on giving references. (And this is nationally agreed "the green book") So her old place must be governed by the same policy.

It is to write a reference and pass it through HR who proof read it and make sure it is ok. There is also a strict policy on not writing opinion etc. I would put it in writing to the HR dept as suggested by SarEl. And to the managers superior. I'd be very surprised if they even knew the manager had received a reference request. (Tell your missus to get any further requests addressed to the HR Dept, they will know about then?)

I used to be a HR admin for Asda and we used to do the reference requests. All we were allowed to do is confirm employment dates and give factual answers, i.e were they subject to any formal disciplinary action? Their reason for leaving etc.

Acc72

Moot wrote: »

Well when my partner came home we discussed it further. She has contacted her agency and asked for a copy of the reference. The agency have refused her request and told her that the manager had specifically asked for it not to be shown to my partner. So why they discussed with her is a bit of a mystery.

I am not sure what the law is around references. Can they withhold the reference? Can we apply for it through data protection law? Not sure what the next step is because without it we have very little and my partner could be "shafted" by a vindictive former manager.

Another problem that I did not mention earlier is that she would still like to consider working for the same council as they are our local one, but in a different team away from the manager. However she now fears that her chances are now virtually zero.

So the agency told you that the reference was "really bad" but they will not let you have a copy ?

In reality, you are entitled to a copy of the letter. In practice however, if you submit a Subject Data Access Request and cheque for £10 to the agency, you may find that they suddenly don't want your services any longer.

You therefore need to refer back to the original employer.

Just ring HR and ask them to confirm their procedure with regards to references.

Then explain that the former manager has issued a reference that has been described as "very bad" and that you would like a copy of the reference.

See what they say ....

I would expect that at a Council, any reference should come from HR.

It sounds as though the manager has written the equivalent of a "personal reference", however if they have done this on council letter headed paper giving the impression that it is official and on behalf of the council then they could be in trouble.

Hopefully the agency will continue with your employment, but you do need to get to the bottom of this sooner or later.

This will surely resurface, and it will be easier to resolve now than in a few years time.

Acc72

Sorry, I also meant to say ....

In future when asked for reference details just supply "HR Department, XXX Council" and not the specific name of the ex-manager - the reference is on behalf of the company and not the individual.

From what you say, it may be that the ex-manager could be in trouble - especially if they are also refusing to supply a reference to other former employees (before anybody jumps in, although legally a reference may be refused, I cannot believe that a council would not have written procedures and would allow an individual to make such a decision).

Uncertain

The ICO's guidance on access to references is here.....

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/references_v1.0_final.pdf

As you will see the right of access is not quite as absolute as you might like to think.

However that doesn't meant they won't provide it and it is even possible that the council may welcome the opportunity of disciplining the manager for going outside their guidelines (assuming he has).

Moot

Acc72 wrote: »

So the agency told you that the reference was "really bad" but they will not let you have a copy ?

In reality, you are entitled to a copy of the letter. In practice however, if you submit a Subject Data Access Request and cheque for £10 to the agency, you may find that they suddenly don't want your services any longer.

You therefore need to refer back to the original employer.

Just ring HR and ask them to confirm their procedure with regards to references.

Then explain that the former manager has issued a reference that has been described as "very bad" and that you would like a copy of the reference.

See what they say ....

I would expect that at a Council, any reference should come from HR.

It sounds as though the manager has written the equivalent of a "personal reference", however if they have done this on council letter headed paper giving the impression that it is official and on behalf of the council then they could be in trouble.

Hopefully the agency will continue with your employment, but you do need to get to the bottom of this sooner or later.

This will surely resurface, and it will be easier to resolve now than in a few years time.

Correct, the agency read the reference to her but then refused to supply a copy of it. I think they realised they had said too much.

Dealing with HR directly could well be the way to go here. I think you may be right that the manager is giving a personal reference. Whether they did on council headed paper is unknown.

However if this is the case would the only copy of this personal reference be held by the agency? I that is the case then we have less to worry about as HR would only give the basic details and we would not mention the manager on future job applications.

Could it be that HR have the standard reference and the manager added the personal ref as an extra twist of the knife?

SarEl

Bluemeanie wrote: »

I work for a City Council, in a Manager role and there are strict policies on giving references. (And this is nationally agreed "the green book") So her old place must be governed by the same policy.

It is to write a reference and pass it through HR who proof read it and make sure it is ok. There is also a strict policy on not writing opinion etc. I would put it in writing to the HR dept as suggested by SarEl. And to the managers superior. I'd be very surprised if they even knew the manager had received a reference request. (Tell your missus to get any further requests addressed to the HR Dept, they will know about then?)
.

This isn't strictly true. The Green Book no longer regulates Council terms - it is advisory and has been for some time. Some Council's operate parts of it for ease - generally the pay and conditions sections, but some have staryed even from those and set their own pay and conditions policies - but I don't know any that still apply it rigidly in all aspects. It is certainly highly unusual for managers to submit references to HR unless they want specific advice on certain aspects of the reference.

Moot wrote: »

Could it be that HR have the standard reference and the manager added the personal ref as an extra twist of the knife?

Very unlikely - my first bet would be that HR know nothing about any reference request at all. And are likely to be less than pleased to hear about it now!

Savvy_Sue

lucky18 wrote: »

In my case, I supplied "HR dep XXX Council but it ended up with my previous manager who gave the "bad" reference. Are they allowed to do it without my consent???

I would say that if their policy says "pass all ref requests to previous manager if still an employee" then they're perfectly entitled to do that. If the usual policy is to send them from HR and it seems they randomly sent yours to your previous manager, then you'd have grounds for complaint.

ALWAYS worth checking before you leave what the policy is.

Savvy_Sue

lucky18 wrote: »

How can I check it?

Phone HR and ask? Even though you've left, it's a perfectly reasonable question.