Bad reference

SarEl

Moot wrote: »

We just want this reference changed to an honest and factual one.

Well in that case you submit a formal grievance directly to HR - not to the manager - stating what is untrue, and pointing out that misleading and untrue references are actionable (although actually - really hard to action!) and that you (a) want this reference withdrawing and replacing with a truthful reference, (b) want an assurance that this will not happen again and (c) reserve the right to take legal action against the council if their managers actions causes her quantifiable loss.

Uncertain

Moot wrote: »

She has had a look at it and the reference makes several accusations, yet provides no evidence to back up these accusations and no disciplinary procedure evidence either. Needless to say my partner refutes the comments as they are factually incorrect opinion/lies.

As others have said she needs to get hold of a copy of the reference and then get a couple of unbiased opinions on what it says.

There is a big difference between someone expressing their view (however unwelcome) and making a statement of "fact" that is provably untrue. It is quite difficult to be objective when reading something about yourself, particularly if you don't get on with the author.

Whether or not something was intended to mislead is even more difficult. English is a strange language and it is very easy to convey more than one meaning with the same words.

Suppose I had employed three people in similar jobs. Two were truly excellent and the other was reasonably satisfactory. It would be true to say in a reference that this person had performed to a significantly lower standard than their colleagues. Misleading? Debatable. Actionable? I seriously doubt it.

To say XXX performed well below my expectations is pretty damming. Of course it may be that all that was at fault was my management but I'm hardly going to say that!

Difficult.

Nine_Lives

Have i been incorrectly informed that your previous employer can not write a negative reference about you?
I was told that they can't "slag you off" basically.

Seems i've been told wrong...?

Uncertain

K_P83 wrote: »

Seems i've been told wrong...?

Yes, you were!

This is a popular myth that comes up on here at least once a week. A firm may have its own internal rules about what staff can say in references but, in law, they can say anything that is true and not intended to mislead. As I indicated you can be pretty damming and stay well within this!

Moot

Well when my partner came home we discussed it further. She has contacted her agency and asked for a copy of the reference. The agency have refused her request and told her that the manager had specifically asked for it not to be shown to my partner. So why they discussed with her is a bit of a mystery.

I am not sure what the law is around references. Can they withhold the reference? Can we apply for it through data protection law? Not sure what the next step is because without it we have very little and my partner could be "shafted" by a vindictive former manager.

Another problem that I did not mention earlier is that she would still like to consider working for the same council as they are our local one, but in a different team away from the manager. However she now fears that her chances are now virtually zero.

Savvy_Sue

Has to be true and provable, pretty much though. In the example Uncertain gave I'd expect it to be backed up with something like "and did not improve despite several action plans being implemented under close supervision", and I'd expect those action plans to be in notes on the employee's file.

Anything which has only been informally raised - lateness, failure to comply with the dress code etc - a manager (or HR) might not want to include in a reference.

Moot

bwhomeresponse wrote: »

speak to the previous managers superiors, tell them whats going on.

This is something she is now considering as we have been rejected access to the reference.

She is still debating if it wise to do this and risk rocking the boat further. Or accept that we people can do this to you and walk away and hope there is no real come back from it.

All in all it's not a nice experience.

Moot

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Has to be true and provable, pretty much though. In the example Uncertain gave I'd expect it to be backed up with something like "and did not improve despite several action plans being implemented under close supervision", and I'd expect those action plans to be in notes on the employee's file.

Anything which has only been informally raised - lateness, failure to comply with the dress code etc - a manager (or HR) might not want to include in a reference.

Indeed. However no action plans, informal or formal verbal warnings or written warnings were ever given. The reason being the claims are false.

Unfortunately we have no real case unless we have a copy of the reference.

Uncertain

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

In the example Uncertain gave I'd expect it to be backed up with something like "and did not improve despite several action plans being implemented under close supervision", and I'd expect those action plans to be in notes on the employee's file.

Anything which has only been informally raised - lateness, failure to comply with the dress code etc - a manager (or HR) might not want to include in a reference.

All of that is good practice but I was giving examples of what can happen if somebody "has it in for you" and is prepared to get close to the line.

Pursuing a claim for damages as a result of an untrue reference is not for the fainthearted. This is expensive litigation, not employment tribunal stuff.

Nine_Lives

Uncertain wrote: »

Yes, you were!

This is a popular myth that comes up on here at least once a week. A firm may have its own internal rules about what staff can say in references but, in law, they can say anything that is true and not intended to mislead. As I indicated you can be pretty damming and stay well within this!

Thanks for clearing that up.

Interesting. What about a bitter previous employer then, out of curiosity?

Who could either A) make a story up about you or put a very heavy twist on things which doesn't favour you.

Both of which aren't right. What 1) would you do about this or 2) could you do about this?