Greece...

Fella

I wonder if Brexit has strengthened Greece's hand considerably. With their current bailout due to end in 2018, just as Brexit negotiations will be at their peak I guess, they can probably demand whatever they like as no way will Germany & France want another country dropping out of the EU at that time.

davomcdave

Fella wrote: »

I wonder if Brexit has strengthened Greece's hand considerably. With their current bailout due to end in 2018, just as Brexit negotiations will be at their peak I guess, they can probably demand whatever they like as no way will Germany & France want another country dropping out of the EU at that time.

It's an interesting point especially given that Trump has been making noises about reducing IMF funding.

Greece should have gone bust years ago. No need to leave the EU or even the Euro to do it.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Another interesting report on Greece, the IMF and that huge Greek debt burden:

Holding up these negotiations at the moment is the fact the International Monetary Fund have finally clocked the status quo is totally unsustainable. The IMF believes Greece’s debts will balloon after 2030, as it struggles to pay off its high-interest loans, to eventually hit 275 percent of GDP by 2060 – almost three times the size of the Greek economy. Greece’s current debt level is an already catastrophic 177 percent of GDP.
The IMF recognises some of this debt must be restructured and forgiven in order to make it sustainable. They have said they will not take part in any new bailout unless this happens.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6505/no_peace_inside_the_eurozone_for_greece

cogito

A bank run appears to be developing in Greece as the Union of Greek Banks has reported that €2.5bn was withdrawn in the first 45 days of the year. Under capital controls, only €420 a week can be withdrawn which means that a lot of people are putting money under their mattresses.

Also reported that Non Performing Loans increased by €800m in January reversing recent trends and this has continued this month. One of the targets for Greece set by the ECB was to reduce NPLs by €2.5bn by the end of March which gives the figures added significance.

worldtraveller

cogito wrote: »

A bank run appears to be developing in Greece as the Union of Greek Banks has reported that €2.5bn was withdrawn in the first 45 days of the year. Under capital controls, only €420 a week can be withdrawn which means that a lot of people are putting money under their mattresses.

Also reported that Non Performing Loans increased by €800m in January reversing recent trends and this has continued this month. One of the targets for Greece set by the ECB was to reduce NPLs by €2.5bn by the end of March which gives the figures added significance.

I have, yet again, a sense of deja vue coming on...

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=53145429&postcount=285

Froggitt

Population 11m
€2.5bn divided by €420 = 6m

Thats almost half the people, and you could probably assume the other half don't have €420 to withdraw.

cogito

Froggitt wrote: »

Population 11m
€2.5bn divided by €420 = 6m

Thats almost half the people, and you could probably assume the other half don't have €420 to withdraw.

Quite so, but then a lot of families have more than one account. My wife and I each have one so can draw €840 per week. It's also interesting that since the Greek government made it compulsory for businesses to accept card payments towards the end of last year, more and more people are paying with plastic. This was a rarity until then but it's now commonplace. So people are now paying with plastic for things that they used to pay in cash AND drawing cash out of the banks as well.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

A German perspective?
From a report in thelocal.de entitled:

Here's why Germany is so 'tough' on Greece over its debts

https://www.thelocal.de/20170221/heres-why-germany-is-so-tough-on-greece-over-its-debts

cogito

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

A German perspective?
From a report in thelocal.de entitled:

https://www.thelocal.de/20170221/heres-why-germany-is-so-tough-on-greece-over-its-debts

Kritikos is an idiot if he thinks that half a million people have left Greece in the last eight years because of bureaucracy. They've left because there aren't any jobs.

And why aren't there any jobs? It might just have something to do with the relentless austerity imposed on the Greeks by countries like Germany which threw money at them so that they could buy German products when times were good.

That is not to say that Greece had no responsibility in the matter but when your bank manager is calling every day to take out a cheap loan (I swear this is true), it's hard to resist.

leveller2911

cogito wrote: »

Kritikos is an idiot if he thinks that half a million people have left Greece in the last eight years because of bureaucracy. They've left because there aren't any jobs.

The people are taking their businesses with them in some cases just popping over the border into Bulgaria to escape the 29% Corporation Tax and bureaucracy.

Thats the beauty of the EU , if your business is suffering through being taxed to death you can just pop over the border and take advantage of your neighbours looser tax regulations.

Flip side is Greeks have never liked paying tax, paying for the services, pensions ,infrastructure etc so do they deserve so much sympathy?.


"Businesses relocated from Greece generate about 5 billion euros ($5.3 billion) annually and employ an estimated 53,000 people, according to 2014 data from Greece's embassy in Sofia. Numbers are rising fast: 3,642 Greek businesses have been registered in Bulgaria so far this year, up from 3,262 for all of 2015, according to the Bulgarian Registry Agency".

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eurozone-greece-bulgaria-business-ins-idUSKBN13I0GX