Greece...

cells

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Interesting...

So you've found a way for savers to get returns without someone borrowing their money?

Or for surplus nations to continue running a surplus without someone else buying all their stuff?

Do explain further....

I'm sure the global economic community is eagerly awaiting your magical solution.

Its easy the excess producer instead of producing for the debtor can produce for themselves

An example might be that if you have 10,000 hours to spare you could go out and work for 10,000 hours for someone else for the promise of them working for you for 12,000 hours in your old age OR you can go and spend 10,000 hours improving/extending your home

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

You expressed an opinion that society has a moral attitude towards debtor being seen as recipients of a favour, I noted that if they do it is incorrect, there is no moral superiority to either borrowing or lending.

They are two sides of the same coin.

Savers are reliant upon the generosity of borrowers to pay them a return. Borrowers are reliant upon the generosity of savers to lend them money. Neither has any position of moral superiority.

And there was me thinking it was a business transaction, with a bargain being struck based on perceived benefits, risks and costs on both sides.

cells

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The blame game is played to distract the sheeple from their own failings and allow politicians to avoid discussing uncomfortable truths.

Merkel wouldn't get very far politically if she stood up and told Germans they needed to either spend all their savings or endure a very long and painful recession as it was unfair to expect other nations to continue subsidising Germany through deficit consumption.

The German national debt is nearly 2 trillion euros the German state is not a net saver its a net debtor

cells

buglawton wrote: »

And there was me thinking it was a business transaction, with a bargain being struck based on perceived benefits, risks and costs on both sides.

Most creditors probably place a price too low for the risk of default and the lost opertunity cost especially considering inflation and mortality

Which means interest rates are probably too low

That benefits borrowers and probably !!!!ea off creditors when the debtors do default

Going forward I suspect the biggest stock of savings is going to become tangible goods rather than cash savings not least the building of some 4+ billion homes worldwide

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

cells wrote: »

The German national debt is nearly 2 trillion euros the German state is not a net saver its a net debtor

Germany has been in budgetary surplus for the last 3 years. And (from memory) has averaged a deficit smaller than GDP growth in % terms for the last decade.

But regardless, in this instance we are talking about trade surpluses/deficits leading to a requirement for borrowing/lending in order to maintain economic activity.

And on that point Germany's failings are clear....

Germany’s current account surplus is out of control. The European Commission’s Spring forecasts show that it will smash all previous records this year, reaching a modern-era high of 7.9pc of GDP. It will still be 7.7pc in 2016.

Vague assurances that the surplus would fall over time have once again come to nothing.

The country is now the biggest single violator of the eurozone stability rules. It would face punitive sanctions if EU treaty law was enforced.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/11584031/Germanys-record-trade-surplus-is-a-bigger-threat-to-euro-than-Greece.html

remorseless

Could today be the last episode on the Greece Soap Opera?

chucknorris

I think Greece have been treated outrageously by the rest of Europe. Worse still, our mortgage lenders are just as bad, inspired by Tsipras's strategy, we contacted our lenders and tried to negotiate a deal. We wanted them to write off 50% of our mortgages, but we did promise to immediately borrow the same amount again, as long as they gave us the cash by the end of the week. But they refused! So they are just as bad as Germany, they don't seem to want to give up their money to make my life easier, this actually means that I will have to make an effort to provide for myself, how selfish of them.

wotsthat

chucknorris wrote: »

I think Greece have been treated outrageously by the rest of Europe. Worse still, our mortgage lenders are just as bad, inspired by Tsipras's strategy, we contacted our lenders and tried to negotiate a deal. We wanted them to write off 50% of our mortgages, but we did promise to immediately borrow the same amount again, as long as they gave us the cash by the end of the week. But they refused! So they are just as bad as Germany, they don't seem to want to give up their money to make my life easier, this actually means that I will have to make an effort to provide for myself, how selfish of them.

I bet you made the schoolboy error of not having a referendum. If you could have shown 100% of you and your wife had voted for better terms it would have strengthened your position no end.

chucknorris

wotsthat wrote: »

I bet you made the schoolboy error of not having a referendum. If you could have shown 100% of you and your wife had voted for better terms it would have strengthened your position no end.

No, we did, and the vote was 100%, Ozzie (my Labrador), my wife and I all voted for this deal. Our mortgage lenders are just as selfish as the German people. I can't believe how lazy the German people have become, they don't seem to want to work later in life than the Greek people, to support them. How on earth do they expect the Greek people to enjoy an early retirement, if they are not willing to pay for it.

TheBlueHorse

The EU should have been a tiered system. Like a league.