AST ending soon... how to change to periodic?

mystra

G_M wrote: »

Goodness knows why you have asked them!

Either you sign a new Fixed Term contract (which you said you wanted to avoid) in which case any rental amount can be discussed, requested, refused, accepted, agreed.

Or you move to a Periodic monthly Tenancy, which is based on your existing contract. In that case the rent increase shown in the contract can be imposed. Whether the LL/agent (who clearly are as in the dark as you about this!) take the necessary steps is up to them, but by asking, you have effectivley pushed them into raising your rent!

To activate this clause and increase the rent, Shelter says:



"After any fixed-term expires, your rent can only be increased if:

• your tenancy agreement contains a procedure for rent increases (this is unusual) that your landlord follows
• your landlord gives you written notice of the proposed increase
• your landlord gives you written notice of making a change to the terms of your tenancy.

The amount of notice your landlord gives you before the rent increase takes effect must be at least one rental period (usually one month). "

Had you kept quiet, moved to a Periodic Tenancy, and continued paying the original rent, you'd have been fine unless/untill the LL/agent wrote to you with a months notice of a rent increase.

How have i pushed them into increasing the rent by asking a question??

I couldn't keep quiet because previous posters have said the S21 sneakily attached to the back of my contract means that i wont be able to just stay quiet and let it turn into a periodic, i feel like i don't have a leg to stand on here and everyone is saying different things!

If the rent increases and we can go periodic i don't mind, i can scrimp the extra together, it wont be as much trouble as staying long term or moving now without the funds and time.

G_M

mystra wrote: »

How have i pushed them into increasing the rent by asking a question??

I couldn't keep quiet because previous posters have said the S21 sneakily attached to the back of my contract means that i wont be able to just stay quiet and let it turn into a periodic, i feel like i don't have a leg to stand on here and everyone is saying different things!

If the rent increases and we can go periodic i don't mind, i can scrimp the extra together, it wont be as much trouble as staying long term or moving now without the funds and time.

OK - not 'pushed them into it', but certainly brought it to their attention so that they are more likely to do it.

The S21 does not mean you cannot go Periodic. It does give the LL the option to start eviction proceedings if he chooses, but he could do that anyway. It's just the 1st step.

Once you go Periodic, the LL has various options:
1) do nothing. Accept the situation and retain a good, reliable, paying tenant thus avoiding voids with no rent etc
2) impose a rent increase (assuming he is aware of/understands the clause you have now brought to his attention)
3) evict. 1st step is the S21 (which may/may not be valid). If he does this, he has all the costs of finding a new tenant, has at least a months lost rent between tenants, and has no way of knowing the replacement tenant will be reliable......

mystra

G_M wrote: »

OK - not 'pushed them into it', but certainly brought it to their attention so that they are more likely to do it.

The S21 does not mean you cannot go Periodic. It does give the LL the option to start eviction proceedings if he chooses, but he could do that anyway. It's just the 1st step.

Once you go Periodic, the LL has various options:
1) do nothing. Accept the situation and retain a good, reliable, paying tenant thus avoiding voids with no rent etc
2) impose a rent increase (assuming he is aware of/understands the clause you have now brought to his attention)
3) evict. 1st step is the S21 (which may/may not be valid). If he does this, he has all the costs of finding a new tenant, has at least a months lost rent between tenants, and has no way of knowing the replacement tenant will be reliable......

trust me, they would have done it without me bringing it up. Hopefully we can come to some sort of agreement about going periodic.

G_M

Are all your negotiations with the agent? Or can you speak to the LL? (forgive me not re-reading the whole thread to see if it's been mentioned!). I ask because LLs and agents have different views on this. The agent will hate the idea of Periodic - no fee! The LL may hate the idea of a new Fixed Term - also because he pays a fee!

I have a friend going abroad who has been trying to select an agent, and trying to pin down what fees he will have to pay as a LL. Their only suggestion to reduce the 6 monthly 'renewal fee' (yes, LLs pay it too!) was to offer 12 monthly contracts. Not one agent ever mentioned Periodic tenancies to him. Only when I explained, and he went back to them, did one agent grudgingly aknowledge this was possible and would not cost my friend (or the tenant) anything.

mystra

G_M wrote: »

Are all your negotiations with the agent? Or can you speak to the LL? (forgive me not re-reading the whole thread to see if it's been mentioned!). I ask because LLs and agents have different views on this. The agent will hate the idea of Periodic - no fee! The LL may hate the idea of a new Fixed Term - also because he pays a fee!

I have a friend going abroad who has been trying to select an agent, and trying to pin down what fees he will have to pay as a LL. Their only suggestion to reduce the 6 monthly 'renewal fee' (yes, LLs pay it too!) was to offer 12 monthly contracts. Not one agent ever mentioned Periodic tenancies to him. Only when I explained, and he went back to them, did one agent grudgingly aknowledge this was possible and would not cost my friend (or the tenant) anything.

Interesting.

Yes all my contact is with the Letting agent, i've never spoken to the LL as it's all done through the agent. Turns out my contact there (and the only person who deals with this sort of thing) work part time so wont be in until thursday - so frustrating!!

G_M

What address is given on the tenancy agreemnent fo serving notices on the landlord? Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 requires an address, though it can be c/o an agent and may well be.

However, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 (S 1) requires that if you write to the agent (or anyone who collects rent) asking for the LL's actual address, they have 14 days to provide it. Criminal offence to fail to respond.

mystra

G_M wrote: »

What address is given on the tenancy agreemnent fo serving notices on the landlord? Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 requires an address, though it can be c/o an agent and may well be.

However, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 (S 1) requires that if you write to the agent (or anyone who collects rent) asking for the LL's actual address, they have 14 days to provide it. Criminal offence to fail to respond.

The name is the landlord's actual name, but address and contact number are the agents... naughty as it's not like it says c/o [business name] it just lists the street etc as if it was LL address and phone number.

Will try that if they wont part with it freely on Thursday, cheers

mystra

well... that went better than expected!

Been told we can change to periodic just fine by the agents... apparently we're the best the tenants ever and she said she wont bother mentioning any increase in rent when discussing renewal to LL unless the LL asks for it herself (they still haven't got hold of her yet) and it wont be more than £10 a week.


SIGH OF RELIEF!


thanks for the advice everyone! :T

jjlandlord

G_M wrote: »

Goodness knows why you have asked them!

Either you sign a new Fixed Term contract (which you said you wanted to avoid) in which case any rental amount can be discussed, requested, refused, accepted, agreed.

Or you move to a Periodic monthly Tenancy, which is based on your existing contract. In that case the rent increase shown in the contract can be imposed. Whether the LL/agent (who clearly are as in the dark as you about this!) take the necessary steps is up to them, but by asking, you have effectivley pushed them into raising your rent!.

If the rent increase clause that OP quoted before is in the current tenancy agreement, then the rent will automatically increase and the increase will be due.
This is not a question of the landlord/agent "imposing" it and they need not take any step unless OP does not pay. No notice required.

They may 'forget' about it now, or they may remember it when OP moves out and deduct the shortfall from the deposit.

So, if the clause is in the contract, OP should pay the increased rent unless the landlord/agent put it in writing that the rent is to remain unchanged.


Mystra:
If the clause is in your current contract, if agent tells you that rent won't be increased, ask them to put it in writing.

JoeA81

I'm glad it all worked out well for you OP.

It just goes to show, you can pontificate over the finer points of the law for hours on end, but it is the relationship between the tenant and the LA/LL which has most bearing on what happens in situations like this.