Getting around the collection/Paypal problem?

Crowqueen

Juzza12 wrote: »

Just had someone through a forum ask if I would send if they paid by Paypal gift and asked if I had feedback elsewhere which i do through Ebay and another forum. I know they couldn't open an INR or SNAD case but could they do a chargeback on a gift payment?

Norfolk_Jim, I read the discussion boards on Ebay far too much also!

It's technically against the rules to allow them to do this; it doesn't give them any rights at all and it's probably not a good idea as if the phone does break, for example in the post, they could get pretty angry.

Probably better, if you are selling something to another person, not to allow them to give up their own rights in the situation, particularly if they are paying a lot of money.

Being a responsible seller is not about setting the trade up so the buyer has no comeback. It's about making sure the buyer trusts you enough to send you all that money. By respecting their rights you will probably get a better experience all round than if you ignore them. You could still be held legally responsible if the phone does not arrive working as described and therefore it is in your interest to make things as safe as possible for your buyer.

Juzza12

Crowqueen wrote: »

You have to remember also that buyers have rights too - if I paid for an iPhone on eBay and it stopped working within the time allowed for a dispute I'd be unhappy and you can't insure yourself completely against that risk. It's not fair on the buyer, and you need it to be fair on the buyer for the system to work properly. I would probably trade it in with a mobile phone buyer site rather than risk someone paying top price and then it genuinely breaking down.

eBay is not "stick it up for loads of money and hope the buyer isn't a fraud and get to keep the dosh". You have to have some sort of option for buyers to have comeback and the hassle of dealing with selling anything electronic that has been used quite a bit and may be a week or two from breaking completely for me is not worth the risk of either selling or buying such a thing on eBay. If you want the good price for it, you have to take the risk that is incumbent with eBay.

It's brand new and boxed and Apple give a one year warranty when the phone is activated, which it hasn't been yet so in terms of a technical problem they'd be covered. It would be sent fully insured with next day Special Delivery so any problems in the post are not an issue.

In reply to the above post and your last one, i understand all of your points but this isn't about denying the buyer rights, this is about protecting myself.

If I were to go through with the sale with the person that offered to pay by gift, i intend to provide them proof that i own the phone, as well as proof of my address and ID.

lovinituk

Crowqueen wrote: »

It's technically against the rules to allow them to do this; it doesn't give them any rights at all and it's probably not a good idea as if the phone does break, for example in the post, they could get pretty angry.

What rules?

Juzza12

lovinituk wrote: »

What rules?

I don't have a link but Paypal state that you can't ask for payment for goods or services to me made via gift.

lovinituk

Juzza12 wrote: »

I don't have a link but Paypal state that you can't ask for payment for goods or services to me made via gift.

Oh, I see. You didn't ask - they offered

Joking aside, if they offered then I would take them up on it! I've sold things in the past taking a gift payment.

Crowqueen

Paypal actively discourage it and state that it's an abuse of their services. To be honest, I agree. I wouldn't buy an iPhone that way and I don't think someone who expects that money should be totally destroying any rights the buyer has if it doesn't work. That's just asking for trouble - possibly an irate buyer with a non-working phone threatening legal action. If the phone arrives faulty what will you do? It's still legally your responsibility, nothing can deprive the buyer of those rights, but they will find out the hard way and I wouldn't be happy as a seller to allow that to happen.

Please, please, please think of your buyer and ask that they pay by normal Paypal services. We don't want to see them on the forum complaining about being sold a phone that didn't work and the seller brushing them off and counting the money. It's just not a fair way to trade.

Even if it benefits you rather than them it's still a bit cheeky to accept it when they can just as easily pay you through Paypal properly and obtain their rights. You only have something to worry about if the phone arrives broken - in the end, it just degrades the service and destroys the trust relationship, and it makes you look greedy too by accepting it on that kind of item.

I would never ever pay a lot of money over to a stranger without there being some way to reclaim my money if things went wrong. I'm sorry, I think this whole thing is completely unethical, particularly since people here are openly admitting to breaking Paypal's rules.

lovinituk

Crowqueen wrote: »

<snip>
particularly since people here are openly admitting to breaking Paypal's rules.

I was going to answer your post differently but your last line is a very good point so I'll leave it there.

macfly

It's against paypal guidelines because there's nothing in it for paypal. You would be mad not to accept that offer.
However, your post puzzles me. The last thing you should do with an item of high value is offer collection. It's madness. Special delivery would be less than a tenner.

shaun_from_Africa

Just had someone through a forum ask if I would send if they paid by Paypal gift

Why not suggest to them that they pay you by bank transfer?
That way you can keep the whole transaction within ebay rules, and there is no danger of a payment reversal and no paypal fees to pay.

Juzza12

Crowqueen wrote: »

Paypal actively discourage it and state that it's an abuse of their services. To be honest, I agree. I wouldn't buy an iPhone that way and I don't think someone who expects that money should be totally destroying any rights the buyer has if it doesn't work. That's just asking for trouble - possibly an irate buyer with a non-working phone threatening legal action. If the phone arrives faulty what will you do? It's still legally your responsibility, nothing can deprive the buyer of those rights, but they will find out the hard way and I wouldn't be happy as a seller to allow that to happen.

Please, please, please think of your buyer and ask that they pay by normal Paypal services. We don't want to see them on the forum complaining about being sold a phone that didn't work and the seller brushing them off and counting the money. It's just not a fair way to trade.

Even if it benefits you rather than them it's still a bit cheeky to accept it when they can just as easily pay you through Paypal properly and obtain their rights. You only have something to worry about if the phone arrives broken - in the end, it just degrades the service and destroys the trust relationship, and it makes you look greedy too by accepting it on that kind of item.

I would never ever pay a lot of money over to a stranger without there being some way to reclaim my money if things went wrong. I'm sorry, I think this whole thing is completely unethical, particularly since people here are openly admitting to breaking Paypal's rules.

Care to actually go back and read my posts properly? I've already said the phone has a full years warranty and that it would be sent insured so should the buyer have a problem I am covered. Again, not trying to deny the buyer rights.

You only have something to worry about if the phone arrives broken

Not true

Can I also mention that I posted the ad as collection only, people are then asking me to post it. I have not said that I will post it refusing collection and then insisting on payment via gift or bank transfer.