Confused about what wiring is required for using Economy 7

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

I read the meter then I press the button and read the next reading then press the button again and get a third reading which is the sum of the first 2 readings. It's all in one meter. There are no additional circuits at all. I do not have storage heating and I do not have a dual immersion cylinder.

Then you are on an aggregated E7 charging tariff. But not on an E7 system.

Many many people are on this system usually but not all because at some time in the past they did away with night store and put in a~n~other heating system.

Many in fact had the discredited ceiling heating system which was an E7 heat 'n water system favoured by [diktat by the then Housing Corporation] Housing Association builders middle 70's to midle 80's.

In your case and most others you do not need secondary CU's and high AMP circuits to bear the load.
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HappyMJ, you would benefit massively, have a much more comfortable winter and save yourself a good % of day~rate costs if you fitted one appropriately sized night store heater to your living room. This is particularly the case if you spend most of the day in the dwelling.

HappyMJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Then you are on an aggregated E7 charging tariff. But not on an E7 system.

Many many people are on this system usually but not all because at some time in the past they did away with night store and put in a~n~other heating system.

Many in fact had the discredited ceiling heating system which was an E7 heat 'n water system favoured by [diktat by the then Housing Corporation] Housing Association builders middle 70's to midle 80's.

In your case and most others you do not need secondary CU's and high AMP circuits to bear the load.
___________________

HappyMJ, you would benefit massively, have a much more comfortable winter and save yourself a good % of day~rate costs if you fitted one appropriately sized night store heater to your living room. This is particularly the case if you spend most of the day in the dwelling.

My property was built in 1995 and has never had storage heating nor has ever had a dual immersion cylinder. I do not spend my day in the living room. I work during the weekdays. The property was built with gas central heating with an immersion heater backup. I no longer use the gas central heating to heat water as it is cheaper to use the E7 tariff to heat the water. I use E7 heating in the morning and peak rate electric heating in the evenings and weekends. The room temperature is currently 19 and I have currently used 6kWh today in 12 hours according to the energy monitor. It might be strange but I would not save or benefit massively at all. I currently use 30% energy at night spread over the year.

bengasman

frugalmacdugal wrote: »

HappMJ has explained in post 10 how his meter works, you can also get this type, a two rate meter, controlled by a time switch,



Electric 2 - Rate Meter



If your meter has two rows of figures like this, it’s a 2-rate economy 7 or white meter. One set of readings is for your lower priced night-rate electricity - this will be marked ‘low’ or ‘night’. The other is for your day rate and is marked ‘normal’ or ‘day’.

I don't think I have ever seen this meter, does it have on set of cable going in and two sets out, or one set out?

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

My property was built in 1995 and has never had storage heating nor has ever had a dual immersion cylinder. I do not spend my day in the living room. I work during the weekdays. The property was built with gas central heating with an immersion heater backup. I no longer use the gas central heating to heat water as it is cheaper to use the E7 tariff to heat the water. I use E7 heating in the morning and peak rate electric heating in the evenings and weekends. The room temperature is currently 19 and I have currently used 6kWh today in 12 hours according to the energy monitor. It might be strange but I would not save or benefit massively at all. I currently use 30% energy at night spread over the year.

Then you have 'fine tuned' your E7 rate use extremely well for a dwelling that has no heat store facility - congratulations. However a £100 or so spent installing a 3kWh+ store used only on Fri & Sat night could move your night rate % from 30 to around 40%[ish] for the 4 cold months of the year.

Good for you HappyMJ, you are the first person I've known who has what is essentially a non-E7 system working so well on an E7 tariff. :T I hope others read your posts and learn from you how to manage their cheap rate usage.

frugalmacdugal

Hi,

bengasman wrote: »

I don't think I have ever seen this meter, does it have on set of cable going in and two sets out, or one set out?

have a look at this thread, post 6, for a better picture of wiring.

HappyMJ

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Then you have 'fine tuned' your E7 rate use extremely well for a dwelling that has no heat store facility - congratulations. However a £100 or so spent installing a 3kWh+ store used only on Fri & Sat night could move your night rate % from 30 to around 40%[ish] for the 4 cold months of the year.

Good for you HappyMJ, you are the first person I've known who has what is essentially a non-E7 system working so well on an E7 tariff. :T I hope others read your posts and learn from you how to manage their cheap rate usage.

I have been seriously thinking about that. I was thinking the 2.55kW version would be fine which would use a maximum of 17.85kWh per night. Over 40 nights that would be 714kWh. Then I was thinking I don't actually use 17.85kWh every Saturday and Sunday as it is. I might go out turning the heating off while out this can't really be done with a storage heater. I was thinking it would probably move half of that 357kWh from the day rate to 714kWh on the night rate. The difference would save me £56.80 but cost £33.66 more on the night rate. Net savings would be £23.14 per year. Then I thought about just how much would a storage heater cost to install including a new circuit that switches on and off as the meter switches to/from E7. I really don't think it would cost £100 all in. Then I thought well if I actually had £300 or so why don't I just fix the gas central heating boiler and replace the broken danfoss programmer.

Richie-from-the-Boro

HappyMJ wrote: »

I have been seriously thinking about that. I was thinking the 2.55kW version would be fine which would use a maximum of 17.85kWh per night. Over 40 nights that would be 714kWh. Then I was thinking I don't actually use 17.85kWh every Saturday and Sunday as it is. I might go out turning the heating off while out this can't really be done with a storage heater. I was thinking it would probably move half of that 357kWh from the day rate to 714kWh on the night rate. The difference would save me £56.80 but cost £33.66 more on the night rate. Net savings would be £23.14 per year. Then I thought about just how much would a storage heater cost to install including a new circuit that switches on and off as the meter switches to/from E7. I really don't think it would cost £100 all in. Then I thought well if I actually had £300 or so why don't I just fix the gas central heating boiler and replace the broken danfoss programmer.

In about 8 weeks a second use 3.4kWh store can be had for a tenner, they give them away [ebay collect] in the warm months, essentially all you would need is a single new 6 or 10mm cable from your fuse/CU to the heater with a fused spur.

- fused spare a tenner
- 10mm about three quid a meter, two quid ebay collect
- heater itself cheaper than the cable
- you don't need to store 17.85kWh for each Saturday and Sunday, you can control it between 0 and 17.85

Regardless, it was just an idea for you to consider HappyMJ, your meter cupboard to living room might be 60 meters away or just two meters away. You could get a smaller .85 or 1.7 store that will run from a 13a circuit, the bigger two [ 2.5 & 3.4 ] will have to run from your cooker circuit.

NOTES :

Calc : 13 x 230 = 2990 watts or just under 3kW

Buying a second use is megga cheap, gives you an inexpensive 'taster' of whether or not you like the store system, whether you need a bigger / smaller one, and can be exchanged for a brand new posh one any time you feel flush. You will of course get at least what you paid for the initial second-hander on ebay on a buy it now / collect only basis.

plumtreebabe

Thank you for all your replies, you've been most helpful.

To clarify what I was querying:

My house has never had storage heating or E7. I have an old immersion heater for water, an electric shower, a dimplex panel heater in the bathroom and one in the study, a log burner in the sitting room and a portable gas heater in the kitchen/diner. After researching on the net (I did, honest!) I was prepared for the new meter to be installed and the heaters to be wired on a separate ring due to their combined load; however, I got confused when the electrician said that the washing machine, dryer and immmersion should be wired up separately as well.

I am also thinking of getting a back boiler put on the stove (only a pioneer 400 so small) to do either extra hot water in the evening or a heated towel rail in the bathroom.

My electrician also said to ring up our electricity supplier to check whether the combined load was acceptable (one 1.7KW, one 2.55KW and two 3.2KW) (we are on what I think is phase 3? the one that isn't very strong as we are remote rural).

jalexa

plumtreebabe wrote: »

I am also thinking of getting a back boiler put on the stove (only a pioneer 400 so small) to do either extra hot water in the evening or a heated towel rail in the bathroom.

Go babe:j though you probably need a plumber for that. Quite a bit of work but well worth it.

Regarding the immersion heater, speak to the electrician about a timer for that unless you want to get up really early every day to switch it on at cheap-rate. Also make sure the cylinder is well lagged.

plumtreebabe

Thanks Jalexa,

We have already had a timer fitted to it - it saved us a fortune as we didn't always remember when to switch it on and off! And we should do okay with E7 as ours goes to 7.00am and we have to get up at 6.00am five days a week so will be covered for electric shower, kettle and an extra wash/dry for the laundry if we're quick!