Offered promotion but no pay rise

getmore4less

the post was advertised twice, internally and externally, but there were no applicants on either occasion so they decided to start identifying and approaching potential candidates directly

I've had several colleagues who were promised all sorts to accept various changes to their duties but when the time came those promises were never kept so I'd struggle to believe a word they say

I have done my homework and found the advert dating back 14 months to the last time the post was advertised and filled which quotes a figure greater than I am on.

They are the ones with the problem finding someone.

Find out why the last person left and the one before that if only 14 months ago.

What is it about the job that no one is applying or if they are are not taking it further.

Hold out for the money and even consider telling/hinting you don't trust them.

You need understand who makes the calls, if company policy is no rises then you need a champion to get one and it is likely the only person will be one the bosses in the new dept. how much will they back a rise to get someone they want.

Research the market rate for equivilent jobs.

Hdi

getmore4less wrote: »

They are the ones with the problem finding someone.

Find out why the last person left and the one before that if only 14 months ago.

What is it about the job that no one is applying or if they are are not taking it further.

Hold out for the money and even consider telling/hinting you don't trust them.

You need understand who makes the calls, if company policy is no rises then you need a champion to get one and it is likely the only person will be one the bosses in the new dept. how much will they back a rise to get someone they want.

Research the market rate for equivilent jobs.

That's my thought exactly - if I go for this I'm solving their problem and I thought that in itself would make them more likely to put something on the table!

From what I understand the last guy was sadly diagnosed with a serious illness which led to his sudden and unexpected departure. As for the lack interest, the role itself is of a fairly specialist nature which possibly explains things, so in many ways I'm flattered to have been approached. But flattery doesn't pay the mortgage so unlike my current boss who keeps banging on to anyone who'll listen that a new title is all that matters in life, I'm not settling for that alone!

Actual company policy is difficult to determine because management don't want anyone talking about their pay - a colleague got a stern telling off last week after the boss overheard him talking money in the canteen however in years gone by a figure of 5% for promotion was routinely banded about, but I know people who have secured more. I'm not unreasonable or greedy and I'm more than happy to negotiate on that one but they don't seem to want to discuss it.

I'm going to ask for a more formal meeting later in the week to try and force them to show their hand so will keep you posted. In the meantime thanks for confirming that I'm not missing something!

B

claire16c

Hdi wrote: »

That's my thought exactly - if I go for this I'm solving their problem and I thought that in itself would make them more likely to put something on the table!

From what I understand the last guy was sadly diagnosed with a serious illness which led to his sudden and unexpected departure. As for the lack interest, the role itself is of a fairly specialist nature which possibly explains things, so in many ways I'm flattered to have been approached. But flattery doesn't pay the mortgage so unlike my current boss who keeps banging on to anyone who'll listen that a new title is all that matters in life, I'm not settling for that alone!

Actual company policy is difficult to determine because management don't want anyone talking about their pay - a colleague got a stern telling off last week after the boss overheard him talking money in the canteen however in years gone by a figure of 5% for promotion was routinely banded about, but I know people who have secured more. I'm not unreasonable or greedy and I'm more than happy to negotiate on that one but they don't seem to want to discuss it.

I'm going to ask for a more formal meeting later in the week to try and force them to show their hand so will keep you posted. In the meantime thanks for confirming that I'm not missing something!

B

I could be wrong but I thought they made some law recently that said that employers are not allowed to prevent employees from discussing their wages anymore?

Anyway, I think you should definitely ask for a raise, if they need someone in the position fast and havent found anyone yet, they should be willing to pay for you for it.

My old company used to give pretty rubbish money for getting promoted. So most people did their training there, and then left to other companies to get paid a lot more (or secured a job offer and then negotiated a rise). Its silly because the company spent a lot of money training people only to have them leave, because they were too stingy to pay them properly. And then sometimes the people who had left would come back after a couple of years, on a lot more money than they would have been on if they had just stayed there. Sometimes you have to move about it seems.

getmore4less

Not sure I would bother with meetings unlss you want to clarify the role.

"I want £X it's the market rate" then leave it to them to come back.

2nd thoughts,

Have a meeting, question in depth the role, analyse every detail, skill set, training. objective, reporting structure, staffing, budget etc. (chances are they may not have done this properly)

Get them to really want you, then say something like, sounds good I want £X thats the market rate.

remember starting salary determines future salary especialy if there is a history of low/no rises.

what have your pay rises been for the last 3 years?

planning303

right firstly, yes you cannot be officially disaplined for dicussing cash / salery (how ever it can be remembered by your boss and still come to sting you in the !!! in the future)...

Secondly, more often than not internal promotiion will not come with a payrise (especially if it's a large company and you are moving up and are looking to gain experience / exposure for the new role)..

this may seem like they are ripping you off (especially if you know that the previous person in the role was on more) but please don't let this dishearten you. take the promotion gain some extra experience that take this increased employability and move firm commanded a decent payrise rather than whatever token gesture the original firm might keep you happy with

LadyMissA

planning303 wrote: »

right firstly, yes you cannot be officially disaplined for dicussing cash / salery (how ever it can be remembered by your boss and still come to sting you in the !!! in the future)...

Just out of interest when did this come into play?

planning303

Hdi wrote: »

a colleague got a stern telling off last week after the boss overheard him talking money

The op mentioned it in this post.

Unless you mean't when did this rule come about, in which case i have no idea. But i did have a manager who declared that we couldn't discuss wages openly last year.

I challenged this and was threatened with receiving a warning for bringing the department into disripute..

long story short, he couldn't tell me off for this and i was told by HR that you cannot be stopped for talking about wages.

however, saying that i earn good money now days, so my willingness to discuss figures publically has gone down significantly lol

planning303

The Equality Act 2010 provides that an employer cannot prevent their employees from making a ‘relevant pay disclosure’ to anyone, and cannot prevent employees from seeking such a disclosure from a colleague, including a former colleague. A relevant pay disclosure is one that is made (or sought) for the purpose of finding out whether or to what extent there is unlawful pay discrimination. It is not limited to discrimination on grounds of sex. The Code of Practice on Equal Pay between women and men provides further information about the law (see paras 103 – 110).

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-employers/tools-equal-pay/discussing-pay-with-colleagues/protected-discussions-with-colleagues-and-others-about-pay/

Lakeuk

In big companies it can be difficult to get up the pay scale in a big way, for alot it can only be done by going up the grades. Generally when you get promoted to a higher job grade at the very least you should expect to get a pay rise that takes you to the bottom of that grades pay scale or if you're already at it then an increase like £1k, remember it's not yet proven that you can undertake all the roles under that grade. Now comes the difficult bit, as you gain the skills for the grade it's likely that you won't get the pay rises increasing as fast to reflect this, you'll probable be limited to yearly pay reviews where the best you can get is in line with everyone else.

My advice is if you feel you'll enjoy the higher graded job and free capable of doing it then I'd go for it - try to get a pay rise but if that doesn't come of then use the opportunity for you to gain new experiences which will move you on to the next step whether it's with the same company or with another company, when you start to be looked as irreplaceable that when the bargaining chip can come into play.

Try not to carry people along, learn to delegate to other and have them take responsibility for the actions or lack of

LadyMissA

planning303 wrote: »

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-employers/tools-equal-pay/discussing-pay-with-colleagues/protected-discussions-with-colleagues-and-others-about-pay/

Oh I had that written in my contract that it disciplinary for anyone who to discussed with anyone what you were paid and if you got a pay rise or not and how much it was. That as far as I know is still in force at my old company.