The ‘Administration fee rip-off’ and how to get out of it!

CKhalvashi

Hey MSE users,

Just done this one on National Express East Anglia, however it also works with other companies in the same situation.

Popped into Bishops Stortford station tonight, with the view of gaining a refund on an unused ticket of a colleague (Gates Ford had a spare courtesy car this morning after telling me they didn’t last night, but that’s a different story), however was told that there would be a £10 administration charge. I have accepted this, then placed on the invoice (or form) for them that £10 is deducted u.p (under protest), making sure this was on the copy I have kept. This is essential if you wish to keep your right, as the lady on the counter (name removed to protect, following a full investigation) refused to put this on, telling me ‘it wouldn’t make any difference, as it’s policy.'

Asked for Customer Service number 3 times, this was refused. She muttered something about HSBC Premier and me being illegally parked outside, before she continued to refuse.

Googled it on my BB, and got the number for the company in question.

Calmly explained that no attempt was made to tell me of this cancellation ‘administration fee’ when I bought the tickets, leaving NXEA in no place but to refund the £10, plus my time at ‘reasonable rate’, as they cannot produce a detailed breakdown of where the admin charge is going. I knew full well about the ‘penalty’, and kept quiet about this. I advise you to do the same.

Have handed my card details over (whilst sat in my car, don’t do this in public), £14 sitting in my HSBC account as we speak. :beer:

Don’t get caught in the Admin Fee rip-off, as if they called this a ‘penalty’ they would not be allowed to charge it. This is effectively what it is, as we worked out it’s cost them £1 max (5 minutes, plus a DC processing fee)

Chris

somethingcorporate

They don't need to justify to you whether the cost is a penalty or not, only to a judge in a court of law if it was challenged. I think your £1 estimate is far too low and I would expect a company to easily be able to justify how the process of refunding (even taking just a few minutes) costs the company £10.

Given the few people that complain (like yourself) it is much cheaper to buy you off for a tiny amount than actually invest in expensive staff to have to back up why the cost is appropriate. I agree with TJR that they have refunded you to make you go away and not an admission that it is a financial penalty.

It's good advice but if people do this en-mass then I would very quickly expect the company to take a test case and win.

Just my thoughts.

CKhalvashi

somethingcorporate wrote: »

They don't need to justify to you whether the cost is a penalty or not, only to a judge in a court of law if it was challenged. I think your £1 estimate is far too low and I would expect a company to easily be able to justify how the process of refunding (even taking just a few minutes) costs the company £10.

Given the few people that complain (like yourself) it is much cheaper to buy you off for a tiny amount than actually invest in expensive staff to have to back up why the cost is appropriate. I agree with TJR that they have refunded you to make you go away and not an admission that it is a financial penalty.

It's good advice but if people do this en-mass then I would very quickly expect the company to take a test case and win.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks SC.

Maybe £1 is a bit low, however if we work the average staff member out at £20/hour (overestimate), then for the 5 minutes I was there would be a case of £1.66, plus a charge of, say 35p (max) plus the cost of printing 2 pieces of paper. This is my reasoning that £10 is not justifiable, as it is approximately 4x the actual cost.

Martin has stated this somewhere, and it’s not that different to bank charges, of which people in hardship are entitled to claim, etc etc etc.

CKhalvashi

tomjonesrules wrote: »

I work hard for my money, and my time is far too valuable to be arguing with NX over a few pounds!

Working this out at £120/hour profit makes this no small business, especially if you’re doing this for something like a family day out for 4. In the same time, that would be approx. £480 profit per hour, (Not taking variables into account)

somethingcorporate

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Thanks SC.

Maybe £1 is a bit low, however if we work the average staff member out at £20/hour (overestimate), then for the 5 minutes I was there would be a case of £1.66, plus a charge of, say 35p (max) plus the cost of printing 2 pieces of paper. This is my reasoning that £10 is not justifiable, as it is approximately 4x the actual cost.

Martin has stated this somewhere, and it’s not that different to bank charges, of which people in hardship are entitled to claim, etc etc etc.

I agree that £10 does feel a little bit high, especially when you put the calculations into perspective. However, if enough people do this I would expect the company to "massage" their costs to get to the right number, given that £10 as an administration charge (when compared to things like bank charges etc) is still a relatively modest amount.

Like most things in consumer rights, if you don't ask you don't get and I think your approach is perfectly valid (and will work for people that are not afraid to do it!). The squeaky wheel gets the oil! I agree that for £10 it is worth standing your ground.

lateandlive

The cost of the staff, the electricity to process your request, the charge from the provider and the sheer fact that there was no obvious need to refund your ticket - the train was presumably running and your space on it was available - more than justifies the charge IMO.

arcon5

They don't even have to offer a refund in the first place, so an admin fee seems reasonable to me -- the fee itself also doesn't seem wholely unrealistic.

vax2002

£10 can be a weeks spare money for a family, those that think that is not worth arguing over, well dont worry, the lash of cold leather will be working its way to many backs this year.
Then you will see how important £10 is.

CKhalvashi

tomjonesrules wrote: »

It is worth arguing over if a) it is unlawful, and b) your time could not be better spent doing something else. It is not unlawful, and if someone has the time to play up for such a small amount, they would be better advised to spend that time looking at ways to increase their income in the long term.

My time could be better spent not arguing with the likes of you, who seems to think that it’s okay to offend.

Tell me, how much are you earning to make your attitude at all reasonable? Obviously enough to have always had a comfortable lifestyle, whereas some of us have earnings that are going down rather than up and children to feed!

I don’t like to feed trolls, but it needed to be said there!

arcon5

vax2002 wrote: »

£10 can be a weeks spare money for a family, those that think that is not worth arguing over, well dont worry, the lash of cold leather will be working its way to many backs this year.
Then you will see how important £10 is.

Yes, but the wealth (or lack of it) isn't relevant to the subject at hand. The fee is charged irrespective of how much you do or do not need the £10, not conditional to your financial status.

Unless ofcourse your just putting £10 into perspective to those who are saying it's just a tenner. If so, I agree. The chances are op would have sorted it in the hours he could not or was not working -- so despite the fact it may equal a low rate per hour for her time, it's still an extra tenner op would not have had.
But this doesn't change the fact they paid op off. And in my opinion it is reasonable for them to charge an admin fee.

CKhalvashi

arcon5 wrote: »

Yes, but the wealth (or lack of it) isn't relevant to the subject at hand. The fee is charged irrespective of how much you do or do not need the £10, not conditional to your financial status.

Unless ofcourse your just putting £10 into perspective to those who are saying it's just a tenner. If so, I agree. The chances are op would have sorted it in the hours she could not or was not working -- so despite the fact it may equal a low rate per hour for her time, it's still an extra tenner op would not have had.
But this doesn't change the fact they paid op off. And in my opinion it is reasonable for them to charge an admin fee.

This is the male version of OP, not the female one.

I never said that this was a low rate for my time, in fact as things stand, it’s about double what I’m taking at the moment.

Whether it’s reasonable or not is one thing
Whether they should tell people isn’t. Technically speaking, I was still within a reasonable acceptance period, as I should have the right to change my mind!