Mortgage Adviser Trainee

shameless-about-money

Magicarp, where did you get the 40 from? There aren't as many applicants as that! You can check one recruitment agency on the website- only 3 applicants as of yesterday. Our RA told me the number of applicants which is nowhere near 20 in total! For 12 places.

magicarp

shameless-about-money wrote:

Magicarp, where did you get the 40 from? There aren't as many applicants as that! You can check one recruitment agency on the website- only 3 applicants as of yesterday. Our RA told me the number of applicants which is nowhere near 20 in total! For 12 places.

shameless gonna send you a pm

toonfish

you also need to bear in mind that sales will take at least 2 visits, possibly 3.

I would ask how many appointments you will get, what the average conversion rate is, and how much you can expect to earn per case.

I would also ask about the sources of the leads - you don't want to be turning up to people that don't really want to see you and have been persuaded over the telephone - done that and it's not much fun.

As dunstonh has stated a 10 adviser company that has been running for 12 months can in no way be considered established or successful.

shameless-about-money

toonfish wrote:

you also need to bear in mind that sales will take at least 2 visits, possibly 3.

I would ask how many appointments you will get, what the average conversion rate is, and how much you can expect to earn per case.

I would also ask about the sources of the leads - you don't want to be turning up to people that don't really want to see you and have been persuaded over the telephone - done that and it's not much fun.

As dunstonh has stated a 10 adviser company that has been running for 12 months can in no way be considered established or successful.

2 visits per contact

2 appoitments per day only

clients are pre-vetted

the commission rate for each case is normal for the market - checked that out with a mortgage consultant and the figures are correct.

All Companies, mortgages or not, have to start somewhere. This Company has an established financial services background. I would not have stayed in self-employed business for over 23 years had people said "oh it is new, I won't bother with it"

HelpWhereIcan

shameless-about-money wrote:

Maximum of TWO appointments per day - I did mention this before.

This would mean a target of 3 mortgages plus associated sales per week.

This is where you are completely missing the point that dunstonh is making and it is quite an important one. We (experienced advisers) have all seen companies that promise the earth in earnings for minimal work to entice staff in. What normally happens is that some months into the job, when the promised earnings, level of appointments etc etc do not materialise the adviser either leaves or get sacked for 'under-performance' sometimes quite soon after having asked their managers about promises that have failed to materialise. I am not saying this is the case with this firm, but the fact is it fits the 'model' of many firms that it would be true of.

While they do not seem to have oversold their conversion rate have you found out if the 10 appointments are guaranteed to be provided? (I would guess you will need all of them to hit target) How much business that they do falls off? How much d you have to write to hit target? What is their average case size? What happens if they don't get you 10 appointments and you only write 2 mortgages? Is your target conditional on them providing you a specific number of appointments/leads? Who makes the appointments? Have the customers requested an appointment to sign up for a mortgage, receive general advice or to receive a quote? - there is a massive difference between the 3 and the conversion rates that each produces. (If a quote, will you be expected to do the hard sell to convert them to a sale in the house?)

As I said before, make your own decision and trust your own instincts - but at least try and see through what may be hype. If you have nagging doubts - they may be founded.The industry has a massive shortgage of good advisers and so firms actually find it hard to recruit. This, combined with the fact that most good advisers are settled where they are, means that more and more firms are recuiting from outside the industry. Some firms will find it very hard to get an experienced adviser to join them, but will make out that they don't want them anyway.

Reminds me of the old industry joke that goes along the lines of

"an adviser dies and is given the choice by St Peter between Heaven & Hell. He decides to visit both before he makes his decision. He is not blown away by heaven and thinks that he will find it a little boring, truth be said. On his visit to Hell, he is amazed to find that it is a whirlwind of golf, !!!! ups and orgies and gets the impression that the hot female 'demon' that showed him around was up for a bit. Without a second's hesitation he runs off to St Pete and tells him he wants to go to Hell. St Pete arranges the paperwork and he goes to hell the next day. When he gets there he is horrified to find that his existence will be one similar to a galley slave, under a hail of brimstone, working 23.5 hour days with the devil rogering him with a hot poker during the half hour off he has. The adviser is very unhappy about this and goes to see the hot demon who has now turned into a screeching harpie.

'This is nothing like the existence you showed me yesterday' he complains

'Ah yes' she replies. 'But yesterday we were recruiting, today you're staff!'

shameless-about-money wrote:

The comment above re not honouring the "claim" of only paying one fee for life and the Company dishonouring the claim would never work - they would end up in Court quick smart.
From my fishing about from information a lot of Companies do things that way.

Like it nor not, it is a fact that most of these companies do no more than one mortgage for the customers. There is no promise to end up in court over - the fee charged will actually cover only that first mortgage (check the wording on the IDD) and the firm will be unlikely to actively contact exisiting customers to do a remortgage with no fee when they could get a new customer to pay the fee. Granted, it will be different if the customer contacts them and they will pay no broker fee. The point is that these companies tend not to actively contact existing customers and do not end up with long term customers, but that should not bother you if you are looking to leave them in the short term.

Most brokers charge considerably less as a fee (if any at all) and tend to cover the whole spectrum of mortgages rather than adverse remortgages.

shameless-about-money wrote:

How are they preying on the financially weak? If they are charging one fee for life then they will end up charging the customer a lot less than a high street bank, not more.

They are relying on the situation the customer is in to get away with charging an extortionate fee. I would not charge them a fee in the first place let alone 1.95% and would more than happily match my adverse credit knowledge to any of the advisers or directors there. Any broker fee that the customer pays makes them more expensive than a fees free broker who is your real competition, not the banks. After all, the customer will still pay the arrangement and valuation fees charged by the lender no matter whether they use a fee charging or fees free broker.

You are starting to sound like you have been brainwashed already. People offer the same service, with access to more lenders and no fees - do not make the mistake of thinking that these firms offer a service that I cannot. I have no panel restrictions, 12 years experience and do not charge a fee. These people are not competition to me - I nick business off firms like this all the time. Like the customers last week who were offered a near prime deal when I could get prime without charging the £1500 fee the other firm wanted to - who do you think they went with?

Like I said, take the job if you want to, but do not be under the illusion that they offer something the rest of us (independant advisers/brokers) can't. They may prove to be a great place to get some training, I have personal experience of advisers who have left places like this within 6 months before going on to be very successful elsewhere. They will not be all bad, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they will be all good.

shameless-about-money wrote:

The very fact they have a number - 10 I think - mortgage advisors to start with, coupled with the fact that they are expanding to another 12 by Dec 07 and another 50 by Dec 08 means that the Company is doing rather well for itself.

Oh c'mon seriously. I could expand to 10 advisers within a short period of time too. The fact that they have expanded quickly shows a level of ambition, but do not ignore the reality of some of these firms

http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/16890/4/HCML_hit_by_FSA_fine.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5316142.stm

http://www.mortgageintroducer.com/ccstory/16464/4/Firm_hit_with_£17,500_fine.htm

The common thread that most of the firms mentioned in the first article share is that they targeted remortgage business from adverse credit clients and tended to charge large fees (although that is not what they got into trouble for).

All the firms mentioned expanded very quickly and made a lot of money - does not make them the best firms out there though (nor the worst).

I genuinely hope you have found a good firm to be with (as an adviser and a customer) but I do think your attitude is a little naive.

HelpWhereIcan

shameless-about-money wrote:

2 visits per contact

2 appoitments per day only

clients are pre-vetted

Have they defined pre vetted?

Are they now saying that of those 10 appointments, only 5 will be with new prospects? That makes their conversion rate very important. Despite all your best efforts, you will not sign up everyone you have a second appointment with - although it should be at least 75% of them. You may only get a second appointment with half of the ones you see initially.

Some firms that have a sales process that only has a second meeting if the client is going to sign up. In that case the number of new prosects provided each week is more important.

shameless-about-money wrote:

the commission rate for each case is normal for the market - checked that out with a mortgage consultant and the figures are correct.

Fair enough

shameless-about-money wrote:

All Companies, mortgages or not, have to start somewhere. This Company has an established financial services background. I would not have stayed in self-employed business for over 23 years had people said "oh it is new, I won't bother with it"

They are NOT offering something new - there are hundreds, if not thousands of companies like them. Their mortgage arm may be new, but their model/service is not.

HelpWhereIcan

magicarp wrote:

come on then is anyone going to give me a clue at what questions i should be asking at the interview considering they have about fourty people behind me to interview and someone is going to take the job

I take it that means that you know how your targets and remuneration are worked out - not in general but with specific figures - and that you have sat down and realistically worked them back as dunstonh suggests. If they do not fit, you need to get some clarification.

Most of the info given already in this thread should help you work out what questions you need to know the answers to in order to decide whether they are the sort of firm you would like to work for.

You may also want to consider:

Do they arrange PPI on single premium basis or do they use monthly contracts (or a combination of both)?

Will you be authorised to advise on Life & Critical illness and PHI or just Buildings & contents and ASU?

What professional introducers (such as accountants, solicitors, IFAs etc) do they have?

What local and national advertising do they do? Are they solely reliant on call centres to generate appointments?

Are the staff who book appointments targeted and paid on the business you sign up or the appointments they book for you?

Why were they interested in how you would feel if you travelled 40 miles and noone was in? Do they not expect you to be !!!!ed off?

No-one will be able to say what concerns you may have, they will be different to mine and also to anyone else's. The only advice I can give is to actually ask the question you feel like asking, what (if anything) concerns you about working for this firm and/or the claims they are making? If you offend them or they try to dodge the answer, they were probably not worth working for in the first place.

UK007BullDog

shameless-about-money wrote:

The clients must have faith in them since the banks are sending them to these companies in the first place - that must be why it works?

Banks do NOT send clients to brokers. Most banks now have associations with lenders which do debt consols and poor credit record customers.

Brokers and Estate Agents that take on staff which are new to the industry is because they are crap. Been there, done it and wore the T-shirt. If you want to know names of companies that should be avoided like the pest then PM me. One company starting with C has already been mentioned.

There is no way that as a new person in the business you will earn £50K in the first year. Unless you are a total sales natural. Why do you think they have such a long interview process. 4 visits! What overkill! They are testing your tenacity. Lets face it, most people are at home in the evenings. You drive there then find yourself in front of closed doors or the OH not there or "weirdos" or so much debt that there is no way you can do anything. As for the insurances they want you to sell them they will be canceled and the commission clawed back from your income. Any of those big brokers were you spend hours in a car driving up and down the country, huge fuel bills, are going to cost you more than you will make.

If you really want to learn the ropes start with a small estate agency or a small local broker where you can shadow and learn what mortgages and insurances are all about. Being able to learn how to deal with all those quirky problems and being able to sound professional and actually to have the knowledge. Believe me I am still learning to this day. I paid for my own CeMap and joined a big national broker and it was the worst move ever. They don't care about you and its impossible to meet their targets.

I know guys and gals which earn £80K a year but they have a huge client bank and they do not charge huge fees either. They get referrals from happy clients. This will not work from the "rogue" national brokers as they get the leads from the internet and TV ads where people are very desperate and these people will deal with the broker just once and then never again. Also as you have your company mobile and email address you cannot build on them contacting you in the future as you are not contactable once left the company and you will probably have a clause in your contract stating you cannot contact your past clients as they are the companies clients and not yours.

I joined a small IFA and then after the initial training I joined a bank. There is no way I am going to visit homes late at night and come back after midnight only to find that the deal was a no go due to poor credit and debt. I am still targeted but its a lot easier and no hassle a good 9 to 5 job and I get to see my OH and the kids. No weekends on the road either. Bliss.....

The best adviser in the company I worked for did an average sale of £5K per month, he was running full throttle, driving thousands of miles per month. His take home was £60k per year and 60% of his visits were a no go. Plus the paperwork is a lot and can take hours. Especially if the case bounces from lender to lender due to poor credit.

Companies that advertise every month and have recruitment drives every month with meetings at country hotels and 2 hour presentations are so tight that they loose a lot of advisers, that is why they want fresh "meat" i.e. non-advisers. Because us oldies are in the "know" and would never sign up with them.

New Advisers join here: https://www.cherryplc.co.uk there will find some of us oldies and you can find out more about individual companies, about training, and companies willing to hire.

UK007BullDog

shameless-about-money wrote:

You will find that no Company will employ you with just the CeMap 1,2,3.

The minimum is CeMap one PLUS one year's experience of selling mortgages!

That is not true, there are plenty of companies out there that will take someone on with just the CeMAP. All they want is for that person to stick with them for at least 18 - 24 months. It costs them money to insure and train the adviser, so they want to see some return for their troubles.

All I can say is try your small local brokers or alternatively as I did was to contact the mortgage networks and ask them to send out in their weekly/monthly emails my contact details to their members as I was looking to get hired in a certain area/cover a certain area. I got lots of replies and you deal with mostly the bosses directly and many will be able to give hints and tips as well or pass your details on to past colleagues of theirs who might be looking.

Do not just look at the big companies out there. They just chew you up and spit you out. That is why they only want new entrants. Because old advisers would not even consider working for them. They are just turning a negative into a positive. As you will find out soon enough.

Yes, some companies will not hire advisers if they come from the "rogue" ones, however if you say you left them because you did not like how they treated their customers and it was against your own morals then you should be OK.

UK007BullDog

shameless-about-money wrote:

Since Magicarp and I have both been interviewed by the same Company I think we both agree that they are not dodgy!!

There is no hint of anything dodgy about them.

The very fact they have a number - 10 I think - mortgage advisors to start with, coupled with the fact that they are expanding to another 12 by Dec 07 and another 50 by Dec 08 means that the Company is doing rather well for itself.

The comment above re not honouring the "claim" of only paying one fee for life and the Company dishonouring the claim would never work - they would end up in Court quick smart.
From my fishing about from information a lot of Companies do things that way.

Also, how are the banks any better? You go to, for example, the Halifax and are only offered Halifax mortgage products.
At least these "selection of whole of market" mortgages give the consumer more choice and flexibility.
On interview, when I asked about the "whole of market" I was told that they used a panel of some 70 companies, the Director did rhyme off some of the companies that they use - high street banks and building societies being some of them.

I fail to see where this Company is doing anything wrong. They are obviously using a very successful model - and taking trade away from the High Street lenders - and therein lies jealousy.

The fact that they are growing like that is a warning sign. They are banking on 50% of advisers jumping ship eventually. Going from what I have read about the company it looks to me that you will be targeting mostly adverse customers. That is one area the FSA are having an eye on constantly.

As for the business model of one large fee once and then no future fees is just a new twist. Coming from the arena I can vouch that most clients once they paid a fee like that would not be returning anyway. Its an attempt of trying to keep clients with them. But a whole heap of brokers and obviously banks do not charge any fees. Some brokers insist on insurance so they wont charge then either as you make more money selling the insurance than selling mortgages.

Banks can only advise on their own products. Its not a negative. Its just the way it is. There is no jealousy against brokers. At least I dont think that way. But I was always against brokers charging more than 0.5% fees any more and its a rip-off.

In the end you will have to make up your own mind. Maybe we are wrong and its a good company to work for. So if you get the job keep us updated and we are always here for any help or visit the Cherry website for help from the "oldie" advisers.