Suicide - Duty of Care

MagicCats

tomjonesrules wrote: »

Someone does not take their life because of irresponsible lending, they do so because of severe mental illness.

I take your point in part. To clarify: My view is that if a lender is aware of an individual's condition, or uses it to their advantage that is wrong. Secondly our current financial situation is often attributed to 'irresponsible lending' which has left many in debt, thus leading to situational depression. So what came first, the chicken or the egg?

tomjonesrules wrote: »

I agree, because it is this type of thinking pattern that will eventually lead to those with mental health conditions being unable to borrow money.

Actually no. I have guidelines somewhere that explain how those with mental health conditions that lead to reckless borrowing can be safeguarded by their current lenders so that a) they are not lent too unwisely, but more importantly b) not penalised.

magpiecottage

As others have said, a lender can only act on the basis of the information it has.

It is also required to balance conflicts of interest fairly.

In this case there is a clear conflict of interest between the borrower and the depositors whose money has, in the end, been borrowed.

If the lender does not have a full picture, because the borrower is not co-operating, there comes a point where it has a duty to protect itself and the depositors.

Having taken the decision to attempt possession, it must then persuade a court that it should be entitled to do so. It therefore seems that nobody made the court aware of any overriding reason which should mean a possession order was not granted.

So, whilst the story is extremely sad, I see no wrongdoing on the part of the lender.

In theory the personal legal representatives could complain to the lender and, if necessary, to FOS, I think FOS would defer to the decision of the court which is a higher forum.

bcole

Thanks for a lot of replies - appreciated everyone’s opinion.
Again this is not about blame - compensation or anything so crass to cheapen a devastating and horrific situation.
What it's more about is safeguarding future borrowers. As this recession goes on suicide rates continue to climb in the UK and the rest of the world.
Obviously if a lender or any other institution does not know about the situation then there is absolutely nothing they can do.
I have today found from my local council tax office that they do have procedures in place, when they are made aware of at risk people, they help to reduce the arrears but keep a flag on that person, so if a similar situation happens, they know they have to work more carefully towards a resolution rather than just sending out bailiff letters. Unfortunately they did not raise a flag on my brother even though they had a letter from my family explaining the suicide, letter from my brother’s employer explaining mental health issues and notice of redundancy. So it is great that they have a system in place, but there was a failing in not raising the flag. They have already agreed to have a meeting about this address the failing so this hopefully does not happen again.
That is what this is about, helping others nothing more, there has been some good done today. One less bailiff letter replaced with an understanding ear.
The mortgage company have advised they have a special department/team but I do not know the full details of my brother’s case as I need to prove I am next of kin in writing then we can talk about my brother’s case rather than just generally. The mortgage company have been great by the way, supportive, understanding and ready to listen to me.
Ideally I would like a set procedure to look after the well being of the silent minority of people in this same horrible position. It is no crusade, no apportioning blame to anyone ever, just seeing if some good can be done.
I thank you all for your comments

somethingcorporate

bcole wrote: »

Thanks for a lot of replies - appreciated everyone’s opinion.
Again this is not about blame - compensation or anything so crass to cheapen a devastating and horrific situation.
What it's more about is safeguarding future borrowers. As this recession goes on suicide rates continue to climb in the UK and the rest of the world.
Obviously if a lender or any other institution does not know about the situation then there is absolutely nothing they can do.
I have today found from my local council tax office that they do have procedures in place, when they are made aware of at risk people, they help to reduce the arrears but keep a flag on that person, so if a similar situation happens, they know they have to work more carefully towards a resolution rather than just sending out bailiff letters. Unfortunately they did not raise a flag on my brother even though they had a letter from my family explaining the suicide, letter from my brother’s employer explaining mental health issues and notice of redundancy. So it is great that they have a system in place, but there was a failing in not raising the flag. They have already agreed to have a meeting about this address the failing so this hopefully does not happen again.
That is what this is about, helping others nothing more, there has been some good done today. One less bailiff letter replaced with an understanding ear.
The mortgage company have advised they have a special department/team but I do not know the full details of my brother’s case as I need to prove I am next of kin in writing then we can talk about my brother’s case rather than just generally. The mortgage company have been great by the way, supportive, understanding and ready to listen to me.
Ideally I would like a set procedure to look after the well being of the silent minority of people in this same horrible position. It is no crusade, no apportioning blame to anyone ever, just seeing if some good can be done.
I thank you all for your comments

That's very good of you. :T

RecoveringAlcoholic

This site does publish a Mental Health and Debt Guide.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/mental-health-guide

Conrad

bcole wrote: »

Ideally I would like a set procedure to look after the well being of the silent minority of people in this same horrible position.

Sorry about your lost first of all.

Look, the problem for a lender is that what will happen if your action suceeds is that this will be one more reason for lenders to decline mortgage applications.

Fast forward 15 years you might well envisage yourself posting on here > "unfair mortgage decline due to possible mental health issue in the family".


On top of this 'discrimination' lenders costs would rise as people hearing of your case will I'm afraid use it as a way of garnering sympathy from thier own lender, many of us are imperfect and will manipulate a situation to suit our needs.
This means everyone else has to pay through increased lender indemnity insurance premiums pushing up mortgage rates.

Remember whip lash claim culture sprang out of just one or two high profile cases, then suddenly people have much weaker knecks than ever before in England (apparntly 5 times weaker than scottish necks with different laws on whiplash claiming).

So your Brothers genuine need, becomes tomorrows reason for thousand sof people to seek to manipulate the system.

You all knew your Brother was vulnerable so to be fair you guys probably had more chance than a faceless lender of keeping an eye on him - sorry this is just being truthful and what lender staff may think, I don't mean to poke you or anything.

zzzLazyDaisy

I am sorry for your loss, having lost a sibling in similar circumstances, I do have some idea of what you are going through at this time. There will be a post-mortem which will consider the circumstances surrounding the death. If you believe the financial institutions had some responsibility you can ask the coroner to consider this aspect (s/he may, or may not, comply with your request though).

The truth is that you are understandably looking for someone to blame, when in fact your brother made a decision to end his own life. No-one is to blame. Not your brother, for being unable to cope, not the organisations which touched his life, and definitely not you or his family. Sometimes people can't cope, bad things happen, and there isn't a satisfactory reason or answer.

Hugs

Dx

bcole

Conrad wrote: »

Sorry about your lost first of all.

Look, the problem for a lender is that what will happen if your action suceeds is that this will be one more reason for lenders to decline mortgage applications.

Fast forward 15 years you might well envisage yourself posting on here > "unfair mortgage decline due to possible mental health issue in the family".


On top of this 'discrimination' lenders costs would rise as people hearing of your case will I'm afraid use it as a way of garnering sympathy from thier own lender, many of us are imperfect and will manipulate a situation to suit our needs.
This means everyone else has to pay through increased lender indemnity insurance premiums pushing up mortgage rates.

Remember whip lash claim culture sprang out of just one or two high profile cases, then suddenly people have much weaker knecks than ever before in England (apparntly 5 times weaker than scottish necks with different laws on whiplash claiming).

So your Brothers genuine need, becomes tomorrows reason for thousand sof people to seek to manipulate the system.

You all knew your Brother was vulnerable so to be fair you guys probably had more chance than a faceless lender of keeping an eye on him - sorry this is just being truthful and what lender staff may think, I don't mean to poke you or anything.

I am coming from the human angle and I'm afraid you are seeing it from the financial side. Look after the weak and vunerable, is what I am saying. If there are people who will manipulate, they are the ones who should be punished.

A mortgage is the biggest purchase you will ever make, it needs to be very carefully thought out and structured, not just handed out like confetti.

But the great news is I have been talking to Mind who along with Royal College of Psychiatrists have advised me that they are doing exactly what I am saying and a whole lot more at this very moment within Parliament. It will take a good while before anything may or may not happen but I am very pleased that someone is looking out for people in distress.

So pretty much my quest is over, I have talked with institutions directly realted with my situation, who have been absolutley great, who call me with feedback. Found that there is a national push on this via Mind. And still not blamed anyone......and never will!

Again thanks for your posts

Conrad

bcole wrote: »

A mortgage is the biggest purchase you will ever make, it needs to be very carefully thought out and structured, not just handed out like confetti.

As long as in a few years we don't then get thread titles such as;

'My Son with mild autism discriminated against and declined mortgage even though he's prooved he can affort it'.

No dig at you, just saying things are not as black and white as we might think.

dunstonh

Many terms & conditions on products that exist today arise because of complaints. So, the law of unintended consequences is one to be wary of.