Suicide - Duty of Care

bcole

I am not sure where to post and if im in the right place but seeing people who all band together here, I thought I would ask your advice/opinion.

My brother unfortunately commited suicide on 9th Dec 2011, not blaming one person or company as there were many things that all just added up, he just felt is was all a little too hard. Back in 2008 he had tried to take his own life but we managed to catch him, got him counselling sent letters and spoke to all his creditors. He was very good at hiding things and even thought we were watching out for him, things got on top again, I even found that a court order was granted for the repossesion of the house on 16th Dec.

My thought is, for others in this situation, as its not going to bring my Brother back, is there a duty of care for financial institutions? For example the mortgage company were advised of the situation in 2008, and were great, putting my brother on interest only to help him through. A year later they put him back on repayment but his financial position had changed as he had lost his job, but they made no checks, so he struggled along with 950ish mortgage until he cope cope no more (as well as various other things).

I am not wanting to blame anyone, just trying to get something good out of a bad situation. Does anyone know if they have a duty of care, if they are aware of something like mental health/suicide.

I am talking to the FSA and Mind, but I was interested if anyone had any thoughts or knowledge.

Many thanks

somethingcorporate

I am very sorry for your loss and do not know the direct answer to your question.

I will chip in one of my own though: What do you think they could have done to help?

My honest advise is to not pursue this avenue - I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve here but I don't think any good will come of it.

krisskross

I know it must be difficult for you but what could the mortgage company have done if they were not told of the situation but simply had someone defaulting on their payments? I am sure they would have sent lots of correspondence then there would have been a court hearing I expect.

I think the financial institutions are sympathetic to genuine difficulties but there is nothing they can do if they are not aware.

MagicCats

What a sad thing to hear. I'm very sorry. Perhaps the best people in the first instance would be your local CAB, Welfare Rights and the like. They can advise on what the law states with regards to finances and the Mental Health Act. After this you can decide if you think it's worth pursuing. A SAR request (Google if unsure what this is) will reveal all info each lender knew about your Brother.

After this you'll be in a better position to decide if you have any grounds to complain. I hope this helps, and again, sorry.

kingstreet

A lender is expected to deal with arrears in a sympathetic manner and within the bounds of the law. Repossession is always (particularly in the current economic climate) the last resort and a lender is usually more than willing to negotiate.

This sympathy is dependent on an open and honest dialogue between the parties. A lender is completely reliant on the borrower to inform them of any changes in circumstances and to reaffirm on a reasonably regular basis that circumstances remain the same when that's the case. It would be reasonable for the lender to offer interest-only terms for a period of twelve months, but to be prepared to consider a further interest-only period should it be required.

If here;-

A year later they put him back on repayment but his financial position had changed as he had lost his job, but they made no checks, so he struggled along with 950ish mortgage until he cope cope no more

there was no further dialogue between lender and borrower, the lender would, in the absence of any further communication, end the concession. What checks they could carry out, other than contact the borrower, I don't know.

Whether the lender is entitled to assume a lack of response indicates acceptance or should draw an inference from the silence that there is a further problem, is one question we simply can't answer.

We have to ask ourselves if it's reasonable for the lender to assume everything is alright unless told otherwise or to ask "are you alright?" when a communication goes unanswered.

Thrugelmir

Sorry to hear of your loss in such circumstances. .

Speaking factually and in no way judgementally.

Unless a person is considered to be of unsound mind. Then that person is responsible for their own decisions.

The term duty of care suggests a contractual arrangement , i.e. under tort law. Such as employee/employer relationship under health and safety legislation. Whereas a lender \ borrower relationship doesn't carry any such undertakings and is one at arms length. In that the lender is a corporate body not an individual.

As others have said move on. There's no blame to apportion. Use and channel your energy to so something positive to remember your late brothers memory by.

MagicCats

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss in such circumstances. .

Speaking factually and in no way judgementally.

Unless a person is considered to be of unsound mind. Then that person is responsible for their own decisions.

The term duty of care suggests a contractual arrangement , i.e. under tort law. Such as employee/employer relationship under health and safety legislation. Whereas a lender \ borrower relationship doesn't carry any such undertakings and is one at arms length. In that the lender is a corporate body not an individual.

As others have said move on. There's no blame to apportion. Use and channel your energy to so something positive to remember your late brothers memory by.

I hate to disagree but without full disclosure nobody can really comment on if there's blame. For all we know two days prior to the poor chaps suicide he made some decisions that were made in an unsound mind.

Really without knowing everything from the correspondence from lenders, Dr's letters / notes etc it would be unwise to comment. Even then I don't know what compensation the OP is seeking?

Thrugelmir

MagicCats wrote: »

Even then I don't know what compensation the OP is seeking?

That is a sad sign of the times we now live in unfortunately.

dunstonh

I hate to disagree but without full disclosure nobody can really comment on if there's blame. For all we know two days prior to the poor chaps suicide he made some decisions that were made in an unsound mind.

Problem is that the lender is not responsible for that if that happened in the last few days.

Communication is a two way street. A lender isnt going to contact someone who is making the payments each month. There is no reason for them to do so. So, it is hard to see what duty of care that could be applied to them.

It's not a case of blame here. Its a sad story but if the family missed it then how is a bank going to spot it?

MagicCats

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That is a sad sign of the times we now live in unfortunately.

On one hand yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

On the other, if it transpired one of my family took their life due to irresponsible lending, or bully boy tactics by a lender or DCA I'd be baying for blood.

My best advice, without divulging my profession, has already been given to the OP. In general those at the sharp end of psychiatry (in patiet) will not deal with clients/patients debt. They will however refer to social work.

Community psychiatric services are more familiar with debt, but again it tends to fall to social work services to assist. Drs etc only provide evidence. As I said to the OP contact CAB, Welfare Rights etc first. They will at the very least guide you to a start point.

MagicCats

dunstonh wrote: »

It's not a case of blame here. Its a sad story but if the family missed it then how is a bank going to spot it?

The OP alludes to other things in their opening post. This forum, for better or worse is geared towards lending. Not giving post suicide advice on mortgage payments. We as a group do not know what debt, help or mental state this poor soul was in.

Full disclosure by the OP to the correct people should give them the answers they seek. Apologies if that sounds blunt OP, but you're asking in my opinion, the wrong people.

Again, my condolences.