unfair or just good business ??

Grouchy

Apparently the wholesale price of gas and electricity is the same now as it was this time last year (according to moneybox) and yet prices (despite this latest round of pathetic haphazard 5pct reductions for some consumers) have in general gone up by an average of 20 %. Of course each of the energy companies are making this types of odd cuts to further confuse people and avoid making it clear which is cheapest, thereby preventing many people from switching ... grrrrr.

Is there an organisation that has a remit to oversee fairness in utilities or is it just seen as 'private enterprise' doing what it is set up to do, in other words make as much profit as possible?

Is there a regulator? or body to protect the consumer against profiteering at the expense of what are necessities not luxuries for the general public?

Sorry just blowing off some steam .....

bengasman

Look at the bright side, if the market had not been deregulated, we would be paying twice the current price. Just look at the mail where there is no real competition. 46 p for a stamp, and you pay that to a company that misses over 90% of it's targets.

ollski

Comparing your whole bill to wholesale prices is comparing apples with oranges, it plays a part but the surrounding costs of running the businesses are rising all the time. Surely a 5% drop is a good thing?

bengasman

ollski wrote: »

...Surely a 5% drop is a good thing?

Not if it first went up by 20% "due to rising wholesale prices".
The wholesale increase was passed onto us for 100%, but the decrease for only 25%; we are being shafted for the 75%.

It's like getting a parking fine for £80, and then getting £20 back because it was not your car.

ollski

bengasman wrote: »

Not if it first went up by 20% "due to rising wholesale prices".
The wholesale increase was passed onto us for 100%, but the decrease for only 25%; we are being shafted for the 75%.

But what has happened to the surrounding costs?, I'm not defending anyone I pay the same bills as everyone but everyone gets hung up on wholesale costs which is only a factor in the overall cost.

bengasman wrote: »

It's like getting a parking fine for £80, and then getting £20 back because it was not your car.

It's not

RoyalSwank

Energy bills are made up of much more than just wholesale prices.
There's ditribution and transmission costs, metering costs and 'green taxes' and VAT as well as the costs of the energy companies themselves. Most of these costs have been rising.
It's also worth remembering that we still have some of the lowest energy costs in Europe.

Is it fair for energy companies to make a profit? Well, as a nation we ask these companies to invest huge sums into our energy infrastructure - I think the latest white paper by the government indicates something like £200 Billion is required to modernise our infrastructrure and work towards greater efficiency and security of supply. If there wasn't the opportunity (not a guarantee!) to make a profit then we'd need to find that investment some other way.

bengasman

RoyalSwank wrote: »

Energy bills are made up of much more than just wholesale prices.
There's ditribution and transmission costs, metering costs and 'green taxes' and VAT as well as the costs of the energy companies themselves. Most of these costs have been rising...

Distribution and transmission costs, metering costs and 'green taxes' and VAT have not gone up.
Company costs may have gone up, but that is their problem for not hiring people competent enough to keep them down.
In this case, 15% up followed by 5% down = 10% pure profiteering.

RoyalSwank

bengasman wrote: »

Distribution and transmission costs, metering costs and 'green taxes' and VAT have not gone up.
Company costs may have gone up, but that is their problem for not hiring people competent enough to keep them down.
In this case, 15% up followed by 5% down = 10% pure profiteering.

Distribution and transmission costs and metering costs have been rising. Do you think a meter, or a pylon, or the cost of H+S measures at a power station are less now than they were 10 years ago?

Though VAT hasn't increased it obviously has an impact on any price increase / decrease - if prices rise you pay more VAT.

In austere times all companies try to drive down costs, but you can't simply ignore inflation. Also, the government make energy companies responsible for meeting various obligations, like carbon reduction targets etc. Energy companies need to employ people to deliver these obligations which is a cost.

Also, what about the requirement of energy companies to make massive investments in our energy infrastructure? If there wasn't the opportunity of profit, how would we find all the billions required in inward investment.
If energy companies profiteered so much, why do we have relativley low power prices compared to most of Europe?

bengasman

RoyalSwank wrote: »

Distribution and transmission costs and metering costs have been rising. Do you think a meter, or a pylon, or the cost of H+S measures at a power station are less now than they were 10 years ago?

The comparison is not with 10 years ago, but with last October. Since the last price increase, the aforementioned costs have not risen in any significant way.
I am not a communist, and have no problem with companies making a profit. But when you blame a 15% rise in consumer price on the wholesale market, and only drop your price by 5% when those prices are back to where they started, somebody is not being honest, which makes the derived result profiteering.

ollski

But we're just guessing on those costs, companies also need to keep their promise of profits to the stock market and cover the incredible rises in things like pensions and redundancies. You well know the wholesale price is a small part of the picture.

undaunted

bengasman wrote: »

Not if it first went up by 20% "due to rising wholesale prices".
The wholesale increase was passed onto us for 100%, but the decrease for only 25%; we are being shafted for the 75%.

It's like getting a parking fine for £80, and then getting £20 back because it was not your car.

:rotfl:I love the analogy & agree with you totally - it's the same with Asda "roll backs" they must think we are all daft!

Ofgem supposedly regulate the market but they are about as much use as a chocolate fire guard in my opinion