recieved a tax underpaid letter today.

Mooperman

how do gang,

long time reader first time poster and all of that

Basically, recieved a letter from the tax office today telling me

A: i had underpaid by £1011.88p
B: this happened whilst i had 2 employers at the same time
and
C: this is from the year 2007-08

Now, i didnt have 2 jobs at the same first off.

Rang the helpline and spoke to a chap who wasnt really very helpful (and im not very good with numbers!) and he said that the letter was worded badly, they know i didnt have 2 jobs but they applied 2 lots of credits to my tax code (why do i get credits? no kids, single guy, full time job???)

i also asked about the ESC rule and he immediately discounted that saying that it wasnt a mistake by the tax office and to forget about it (essentially).

He said that they sent me a self assesment letter on the 12th December (which i also havent recieved) and that i would need to fill that in so they can see if their numbers tally up. i have no idea on how to even go about doing a self assesment as ive always been employed by the NHS. He said he was also going to send me a copy of all my P60's from the last few years (as although my job has been the same the trust i work for has changed). Unfortunately having moved houses a couple of times since then and only really getting my business in order (so to speak) in the last 2 years or so i dont really have any paperwork on my financial history.

so now i'm stuck in limbo waiting for this extra letter to come through and i really am not sure what to do/where to go next??

Any helpful advice would be HUGELY appreciated.

thanks in advance

Mark

antonic

Please post up what is on the letter/P800 calculation, then we can help further.

Mikeyorks

The 'credits' relate to your personal allowance. So it sounds as though - in moving jobs within the NHS in 07-08 (?) - you've somehow had your personal allowance (part) duplicated.

You could post the figures from the P800. But that's a bit pointless if you don't have the P45 and P60 figures to go with that as comparisons. Perhaps post again when you have them and someone can give a view on the overall figures?

I presume you also haven't kept HMRC in touch with your address changes? So - if they've required you to fill in an SA Return for 07-08, I would get that resolved asap as there will be penalties involved if you let it drift.

antonic

Mooperman wrote: »

how do gang,

long time reader first time poster and all of that

Basically, recieved a letter from the tax office today telling me

A: i had underpaid by £1011.88p
B: this happened whilst i had 2 employers at the same time
and
C: this is from the year 2007-08

Now, i didnt have 2 jobs at the same first off.

Rang the helpline and spoke to a chap who wasnt really very helpful (and im not very good with numbers!) and he said that the letter was worded badly, they know i didnt have 2 jobs but they applied 2 lots of credits to my tax code (why do i get credits? no kids, single guy, full time job???)

i also asked about the ESC rule and he immediately discounted that saying that it wasnt a mistake by the tax office and to forget about it (essentially).

He said that they sent me a self assesment letter on the 12th December (which i also havent recieved) and that i would need to fill that in so they can see if their numbers tally up. i have no idea on how to even go about doing a self assesment as ive always been employed by the NHS. He said he was also going to send me a copy of all my P60's this wont happen all you will get is a letter detailing your pay & tax as a P60 is issued ONCE only from the last few years (as although my job has been the same the trust i work for has changed). Unfortunately having moved houses a couple of times since then and only really getting my business in order (so to speak) in the last 2 years or so i dont really have any paperwork on my financial history.

so now i'm stuck in limbo waiting for this extra letter to come through and i really am not sure what to do/where to go next??

Any helpful advice would be HUGELY appreciated.

thanks in advance

Mark

See my comments in RED

Mikeyorks

antonic wrote: »

this wont happen all you will get is a letter detailing your pay & tax as a P60 is issued ONCE only

What material difference does this make - as the figures are for completing the SA Return the OP alleges he doesn't have?

Duplicate P60s can be issued. But obviously not by HMRC.

Mooperman

i'm guessing the HMRC have my current address as i recieved the letter at it this morning.

Also, ive never been in touch with HMRC to change my address and have moved a bunch of times, i always assumed this was done through your employer?

So am i right in saying that it seems i'm best to wait until the information the chap is sending to me comes through and then make a decision on where to go from there?

dori2o

From what you have posted, it does seem, as Mikey, pointed out, that during the move from 1 NHS Trust to the next there has been a problem with the tax code that the employer has operated.

What normally happens when you change employer is that you hand in a P45 from your old employer to the new one. This enables the new employer to continue deducting tax based on what your total earnings to date are (as per the pay and tax figures on the P45), and what tax code is in operation (again as per the information on the P45). It also lets your employer know if Student Loan repayments are being deducted.

I would guess what has happened is your new employer has started to pay you as though this was your only employment of the tax year, i.e. they have not taken into account your earnings or the tax paid from the first employer as noted on the P45. This could happen for a few reasons such as, 1) they have failed to operate the figures on the P45 correctly, 2) You did not hand in a P45 but filled in a P46 and ticked statement A. This would inform the employer that this is your first job since last 6th April and as such they allocated you a full years tax allowance, 3) the pay and tax details did not copy onto pages 2 and 3 of the P45 via the carbon paper on the form.

Unfortunately the explanations on the P800 are useless (this has been notified to those with the ability to implement the changes, but alas it is 'not financially viable' to make such changes) and had it been me who had done the assessment I would have sent a letter detailing the reason for the underpayment. This unfortunately is not a requirement when processing calculations, and is one of the reasons I continually get into trouble for spending too much time on individual cases.

Mooperman wrote: »

i'm guessing the HMRC have my current address as i recieved the letter at it this morning.

Also, ive never been in touch with HMRC to change my address and have moved a bunch of times, i always assumed this was done through your employer?

Only as a last resort do HMRC take the address information from the P60 that the employer submits at the end of the year. The reason for this is that the P60 itself could contain an old address (even if at the time of issue of the latest P60 the address was correct).

Mooperman

ah thanks dori2o that is actually quite clear.

so with that in mind am i best to just "mutter under my breath" about a 4/5 yr old tax bill and just pay it off?

dori2o

Mooperman wrote: »

ah thanks dori2o that is actually quite clear.

so with that in mind am i best to just "mutter under my breath" about a 4/5 yr old tax bill and just pay it off?

That is entirely up to you.

You can make a claim under ESC A19, however if it is the case the employer has not operated the P45 for whatever reason then there is nothing HMRC have done wrong, therefore the claim would fail.

You could claim it is an employers error, but in all honesty unless there has been a systematic failing by your employer to deduct tax correctly from it's employees I doubt HMRC will rule against the employer.

Unfortunately to further compound the problem as the underpayment is from 2007/08 it needs to be paid (or an arrangement to pay directly to HMRC needs to be made) before 06/04/2012 and cannot be collected via your 12/13 tax code

Mooperman

the letter i have says that the payment will be taken through 2012.... surely i cant be expected to pay it all before April when i only recieved the letter this morning!?

Out of curiousity though, why before then?

dori2o

Mooperman wrote: »

the letter i have says that the payment will be taken through 2012.... surely i cant be expected to pay it all before April when i only recieved the letter this morning!?

Out of curiousity though, why before then?

HMRC has 4 years from the end of the tax year in order to collect underpayments via a tax code adjustment.

I would check with HMRC to ensure the underpayment IS going to be collected via your tax code in 12/13.

I'm certain the information I have is correct, and I'll check again when I get in work tomorrow afternoon.

If they cannot collect via your tax code you do have the option to agree a payment plan and pay a monthly amount via Direct Debit. So long as the agreement is in place before 05/04/12 then this satisfies the 4 year rule.