Complete refurbishment quote

capeverde

keystone wrote: »

:rotfl::rotfl:How do you work that out?

Doesn't work as a model. The labour price will have to be adjusted upwards to compensate for the inevitable Fubars.

Cheers

quite easily really, its an average 3 bed house according to the poster. To this end I have made a couple of generalisations but in general I wont be far out.

1. Rewiring (Labour & Materials) - £4000
The materials cost for a complete rewire on a property like this is under £1k that leaves a budget of 2k on labour to bring it in at my 25% under budget. Given a spark at £20ph and labourer at £10ph this gives them 66 hours to bring the work in.
2. Redecoration: £5000
Obviously a bit of a guestimate here as we dont know the quality of the materials, but given its a regular 3 bed house Im assuming the wallpaper isnt 300 quid a roll.
3. Plastering (Labour & Materials) 2500
again very minimal cost on materials it would be normal to complete a couple of rooms a day so it would be easy to bring in for well under this cost.
4. Laminate flooring (Labour and Materials) 4500
according to the OP 133m2 and using a cost of £10 per m2 this leaves £3170 in labour which it would be quite easy to shave off 25%
5. Fit new kitchen - size 12X7 (Labour Only) 2200
Labour only to fit a regular kitchen 2 days maximum
6. Bathroom renovation and fitting new shower - 2000
(Labour & Building Materials only)
again, labour only plus some basic building materials and assuming the plastering side is taken care of with item 3. How long does it actually take to install a bathroom.

Love the fact people seem to take great pleasure from shooting people down particularly because they are only armchair experts themselves and dont really have a clue.

Regarding buying the materials yourself and hiring labour only, of course its possible, it obviously takes more work on the householders part but therein lies the cost saving. You just have to be strong and know how to deal with trades so obviously its not an option for everyone.

keystone

capeverde wrote: »

quite easily really, its an average 3 bed house according to the poster. To this end I have made a couple of generalisations but in general I wont be far out.

Thats fair but I don't agree with your analysis.

1. Rewiring (Labour & Materials) - £4000. I've seen quotes for "typical" 3 bed semis vary between 2½k and 6k depending. 4 may be a bit high but its in the middle so I wouldn't argue with that one.

2. Redecoration: £5000. I think that one is high.

3. Plastering (Labour & Materials) 2500. I think that one is low.

4. Laminate flooring (Labour and Materials) 4500. I think that one is low for whole house. £10 a metre for the floor is a cheap and nasty one including underlay and if you don't put down a decent underlay (I mean decent) it will be a carp result so I think your assumption of labour element is off by quite a way.

5. Fit new kitchen - size 12X7 (Labour Only) 2200 Yes perhaps thats just a bit heavy (but only very slightly) but I've got an awful lot of work I can put your way if you are only going to charge me two man-days labour maximum per install.
.
6. Bathroom renovation and fitting new shower - 2000. This is about right. Basic building materials will run out at around £500 of that for an average bathroom and an average bathroom will take iro 10 days.

So on the labour front you are forgetting that the builder has a buisiness to run so if he's project managing then there is an element for that. Most of the trades he uses will be sub-contract so that represents a cost to him on which his accountant (and the taxman) will expect him to make a profit. Then you forgot that he has to consider a markup on materials of minimum 15%

Talking of materials at cost:

Rewire £1k (your number)
Decs can we agree at a budget of £ 500 - £1k
Plastering - iro £500
Laminate floor - lets go with your number and allow £200 for underlay = £1,500
Kitchen - would you agree a fairly modest budget of £4½k including appliances?
Bathroom - suite/tiles lets say £ 1,200
Bldg mtls for bathroom £ 500 (yes I can show you how its very easy to get to that number if you want me to)

Well suprise that comes to just over my "DIY will cost you £ 10k+ in materials" number which I just typed off the top of my head. He would not get away with less and it'll prolly be closer to £ 15.

...............only armchair experts themselves and dont really have a clue.

Ha Ha very amusing. Am I supposed to be offended? I'm not the only one that thinks your minimum 25% overpriced statement is nonsense and I'm not sure how running a summer house business qualifies you to know how long it takes to professionally install a kitchen or a bathroom. Oh sorry it doesn't - you already admitted you don't know the answer to either. A good installer can make a cheap kitchen/bathroom look a million dollars, a bad one can make an expensive one look carp. So less of the snide remarks please unless you were looking in the mirror when you wrote it.

Regarding buying the materials yourself and hiring labour only, of course its possible, it obviously takes more work on the householders part but therein lies the cost saving.

Now I didn't say it wasn't possible I said it was not a viable model. I'll explain why in another post.

You just have to be strong and know how to deal with trades so obviously its not an option for everyone.

Agree and you can bet that the trades won't take being !!!!!!ed about because the "owner" can't project manage, he's got the wrong materials that he's overpaid for or underspecced being delivered at the wrong time and two trades booked to work in a single room at the same time when they will just fall over one another. The scope for additioanl "waiting time" costs is enormous. Thats what you pay the builder his PM element for.

Cheers

keystone

keystone wrote: »

I'll explain why in another post.

So for the man from the Mid Atlantic region:

In managing his business a tradesman will have arrived at whatever balance of competitiveness and net income works for him. If he's acquiring large amounts of excess money, no matter how charged for, he'll eventually run out of work. Conversely if he's not trousering enough to pay his bills eventually he'll go bust.

So assuming he's reached equilibrium, his mix of earnings will be X from labour and Y from markup, if you deny him the latter he will simply increase the former - he will have no choice in the matter if he wants to stay in business.

So overall if you buy all the materials yourself you will be paying more not less, as you'll have materials at a higher base price than he would have paid, plus his displaced markup anyway.

Simples. Squeak. Claro?


Cheers

leveller2911

capeverde wrote: »

quite easily really, its an average 3 bed house according to the poster. To this end I have made a couple of generalisations but in general I wont be far out.

4. Laminate flooring (Labour and Materials) 4500
according to the OP 133m2 and using a cost of £10 per m2 this leaves £3170 in labour which it would be quite easy to shave off 25%
5. Fit new kitchen - size 12X7 (Labour Only) 2200
Labour only to fit a regular kitchen 2 days maximum

Love the fact people seem to take great pleasure from shooting people down particularly because they are only armchair experts themselves and dont really have a clue.


I will only address the work that I have experience of:

Laminate flooring can cost anything from £6-00 sq m to £25-00 sq m so materials alone can be up to £3,325-00 not including underlay,edging trims,door trims or labour........ Its rediculous to say a quote is 25% over priced when you don't have a specification to work from..

Kitchen quote does sound high but how do you know its not a flat packed framed kitchen,3 sets of drawers,pull out larder units,integrated appliances,solid timber worktops with 3 joints,worktop flutes and underslung sink,plumbing work,electrics(no mention of it being included in re-wiring) cornice ,light pelmets etc etc.........

Your 2 days labour is total Boolox ,the truth is neither you nor I can give an accurate figure unless they post a specification..

"armchair experts"? ...........:D yeah ok, better tell my wife that being a qualified Carpenter & Joiner and having 25yrs of experience in the industry counts for nothing and i'm still only an "armchair expert".....:rotfl:

Canucklehead

leveller2911 wrote: »

"armchair experts"? ...........:D yeah ok, better tell my wife that being a qualified Carpenter & Joiner and having 25yrs of experience in the industry counts for nothing and i'm still only an "armchair expert".....:rotfl:

Don't you love it? Though I suspect with your skills you'd have no trouble being an armchair expert...that is an expert in crafting armchairs along with other joiner's magic (my dad was a C&J...the smell of freshly sawn wood will always remind me of him;))

Canucklehead

leveller2911

Canucklehead wrote: »

Don't you love it? Though I suspect with your skills you'd have no trouble being an armchair expert...that is an expert in crafting armchairs along with other joiner's magic (my dad was a C&J...the smell of freshly sawn wood will always remind me of him;))

Canucklehead

One of my next jobs is to make and fit 2 large Victorian style glasshouses out of Western Red Cedar.......I never get bored with the smell of WRC its lovelly.Other than that I mostly use Oak,Sapele,Ioroko and Tulipwood none of which smell of anything much.. I don't tend to use Redwood pines anymore either and thats a nice smell...

Its actually quite nice going home at the end of the day smelling of Cedar........:D