Entry into the USA

evissa

Hi Guys,

Me and my friends are considering going to the USA later this year for a holiday. Quite a few of us have been before and know we are fine gaining entry (well we have been previously) but one of my friends is concerned he won't be allowed entry.

Searched the internet a bit but cant find a close answer to our query so thought I'd post on here and see if anyone knows.

During a night out a few years ago a fight broke out and the police came, quite a few people were taken away by the police, spent a night in the cells for drunk and disorderly and were released with a £60 fine the next morning.

As America are very strict about who they let in, we were unsure if this counts as a criminal conviction or not and whether or not it would jepardise entry for him. Is anyone aware if this does count?
Will he have to gain a visa to get entry and hope they let him or will he have no chance of entry at all?

Any responses gratefully received....

Tojo_Ralph

The following thread should explain the whole issue a little more.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3717891

But in summary, if the conviction was drunk and disorderly, being an offence of drunkeness and disorderly behaviour it would not appear to be classified as a Crime involving Moral Turpitude (CiMT).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

One could then honestly answer the Six Million Dollar question.... No.

scottishperson2

Tojo_Ralph wrote: »

But in summary, if the conviction was drunk and disorderly, being an offence of drunkeness and disorderly behaviour it would not appear to be classified as a Crime involving Moral Turpitude (CiMT).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_turpitude

I couldn't disagree with that, although wiki is never a good source. Heres a better one

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

However, whos to say this person hasn't got an alcohol problem that could mean he fails on that

While alcoholism constitutes a medical condition, this ground does not explicitly refer to alcoholics or alcoholism. An alcoholic is not excludable unless there is a current or past history of harmful behavior associated with the disorder which has posed or is likely to pose a threat to the property, safety or welfare of the alien or others. A conviction for driving while impaired has been interpreted as constituting evidence of a medical disorder and associated harmful behavior.

Source

http://www.americanlaw.com/exclude2.html

I remember reading that they're more interested in cases less than 3 years old.

evissa wrote: »

During a night out a few years ago a fight broke out and the police came, quite a few people were taken away by the police, spent a night in the cells for drunk and disorderly and were released with a £60 fine the next morning.

What I'd do is get a copy of the ACPO report, see exactly what he was arrested for, and go from there. If it helps and shows only drunk and disorderly take the ACPO certificate to the states with him, but only produce it if hes questioned on an arrest.

Esoog

The USA and Britain only share criminal information when a request is made (I've seen this confirmed bia FOI request made by some random). So, your friend could just go as normal and not mention anything. They only way they would find out about his record would be a) if he told them b) he was acting dodgy and was stopped; taken aside, questioned and either confessed his past or made them sufficiently suspicious to make a request for information.

I am not advising any course of action; just giving some facts/info.

Plenty of career criminal families visit the US to Florida for example year after year with no problems alas.

If your friend wants to be sure, he can apply for a visa and go an explain himself along with his police record (I'm sure this is what Cheryl Cole had to do...surely the USA wouldn't let a violent criminal like her in with no problem? :cool:)

On a side note; the ESTA is not the "problem" unless you are on a "watch list" or such like it will be granted. The "problem" is US immigration once you are there.

scottishperson2

Esoog wrote: »

The USA and Britain only share criminal information when a request is made

This FOI (although some information is shared without a request, on serious criminality, terrorism etc)

Reference: T10839/9 3 August 2009

Dear Mr Stacey

Thank you for your e-mail of 25 June in which you asked for the current procedure in place for information on the Police National Computer (or other criminal conviction-related information) to be shared with the United States.

The Home Office does not hold a copy of any agreement by which information on the Police National Computer (or other criminal conviction related information) is shared with the United States. We are however aware of the general process by which information is shared. In deciding to release the information we have considered that the public interest in relations to the exemptions set out in Section 31(1)(a) [the prevention and detection of crime and 31(1)(b) [the apprehension and prosecution of offenders] of the Freedom of Information Act falls in favour of providing the information.

The public interest reason in favour of withholding the information is to make sure that that those who have committed crimes or who have otherwise come to the attention of the law enforcement authorities in each country are not aware that information is shared between the United States and the United Kingdom. The Public Interest Test arguments in favour of disclosure are that it is important for members of the public to be aware that information is shared between the two countries. By doing this the public can be re-assured that criminals are not able to escape justice by moving country, or be committing crimes in a country that is not that of their nationality. In this case the public interest argument in favour of withholding the information is outweighed by the arguments in favour of releasing the information.

The United States authorities do not have routine access to criminal record information held on the Police National Computer nor is the Police Certificate Process routine access to the PNC by the American Authorities. The Police Certificate arrangements are with the individual applicants who may or may not choose to subsequently share the content of the certificate with the US authorities. Further information on the ACRO Police Certificate Process can be found on the ACRO website at http://www.acpo.police.uk/certificates.asp and on the application form page of the same website at http://www.acpo.police.uk/Certificates/Application Form 8.doc

The United States authorities are able to seek details of any criminal convictions held on the Police National Computer on an individual request basis through Interpol channels.

Criminal conviction information on US Nationals who have been convicted of offences in England and Wales is extracted from the Police National Computer and sent, via Interpol channels to the United States in cases where there are fingerprints available and when the conviction is for imprisonment for 12 months or more or the offence is against national security or where sharing would be in the interests of public protection.

If you are dissatisfied with this response you may request an independent internal review of our handling of your request by submitting your complaint within two months to the below address quoting reference 12312:

Information Rights Team
Information and Record Management Service
Home Office
4th Floor, Seacole Building
2 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DF

Source

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...reply.doc.html

Esoog

Yep, that's the one. I wonder what Mr Stacey had to hide

scottishperson2

Esoog wrote: »

Yep, that's the one. I wonder what Mr Stacey had to hide

Hopefully nothing as (if its the person I think it is) hes got a LLM Masters in Criminal Law and Criminal Justice.

claire16c

Weird how many times this question has come up over the past 7-10 days on here.

dzug1

blindman wrote: »

If you are unsure about ESTA requirements then ask proper experts (USA officials? ) not some keyboard warriors with too much time on their hands :cool:

Problem is said US officials will either say:

read the regulations we won't interpret them for you you can pay a lawyer to do that

or yes we will interpret them but we'll only do so if you apply for a visa.

Neither of which helps much

And that Stacey letter is a little on the old side - I think there have been developments since then on an agreement to share more information - but still not all, and still not direct access to details. My reading of it was an extension of the 'watch list' to a broader definition.

esoog's first post gives sound advice.

dzug1

claire16c wrote: »

Weird how many times this question has come up over the past 7-10 days on here.

Holiday booking season coming up - plus no one browses before asking questions

scottishperson2

dzug1 wrote: »

And that Stacey letter is a little on the old side - I think there have been developments since then on an agreement to share more information

This one I beleive

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/aboutus/workingwithus/high-value-data-sharing-protocol/pia.pdf?view=Binary