loft conversion question

sveedy

unfortunately i can't ask him directly as he is back in Poland. from the work i could see, it looks well done (e.g. in the storage to eaves part of the loft there are big long beams that look new & that run the length of the loft) but then i am just an average joe when it comes to building stuff.

i guess i have a choice - walk away from a potential bargain (or a potential lemon) or get a structural engineer to look at it. what sort of cost would i be looking at for that?

having had a look at the planning permission submissions it seems the first application was rejected (dormer dimensions too big) but the 2nd one granted subject to conditions (material used for dormer window, hours of works etc). for some reason the dormer was not constructed and there are two velux window things instead.

sveedy

there does seem to be something re building regs on the PP webpage - a link takes me to a page titled 'building regulations applications' which shows one record for my chosen address.

started date is given as 05/10/11 and the building control ref number starts with N which "denotes a Building Notice application was submitted for work to be checked as work proceeded on site"

but the decision is given as INVALID.

the previous offer seems to have been withdrawn at the end of october so perhaps he was trying to get it signed off before the buyer withdrew....more questions for the poor old EA then!

DannyboyMidlands

You'd probably be looking at around £500 for a structural engineer to take a look and to write you a brief report backed up by calculations. The crucial question is can they see what they need to see? They don't have x-ray specs. Would the vendor be happy to knock holes in the ceiling/floor if neccessary?

Also remember that the engineer would not address any of the other BR issues.

Doozergirl

DannyboyMidlands wrote: »

You'd probably be looking at around £500 for a structural engineer to take a look and to write you a brief report backed up by calculations. The crucial question is can they see what they need to see? They don't have x-ray specs. Would the vendor be happy to knock holes in the ceiling/floor if neccessary?

Also remember that the engineer would not address any of the other BR issues.

You can pay a structural engineer for verbal advice for about £75 an hour! Calculations are only needed if they think work is required and then, only if you actually want those calcs to carry out the work. If you want to pull out instead or reduce your offer to reflect 2 bedrooms, you can. They can tell by looking at the floor depths how big the joists are likely to be and whether any movement is occurring. You can start with the basics and work back as far as you like.

The vendor might be happy to pay for that verbal advice. It seems that the attempt to apply for Building Control Approval would suggest that it hasn't been totally bodged. You don't invite a BC officer in for a laugh.

Doozergirl

sveedy wrote: »

but the decision is given as INVALID.

the previous offer seems to have been withdrawn at the end of october so perhaps he was trying to get it signed off before the buyer withdrew....more questions for the poor old EA then!

Invalid suggests the application was incorrect to start off with for some reason? Wrong documents, incorrect fee, bad drawings...

mutley74

sveedy wrote: »

Hi Folks

I posted on a thread a few days ago about loft conversions that someone else had started but can't find it so here is a brand new post.
?

that was my thread a few days ago.

In a similiar situation with regards to a house i was going to offer for with a view for BTL. I taken advise from a survery on the phone and LA building control dept. General advise was if the house if for letting it should be brought up to date to current fire regulations especially for the loft conversion. To be honest i agree with these principles, after all if i was living in such house i would like to sleep reassured at night. I was told i may need to prove that the roof structure was sound, and that loads on the floor joists have been considered. In addition a stairwall that leads to the living area would need to be boarded, all internal doors to be fire rated and floor boards to the ground floor flat to be fire resistant.

Hence, i decided that such a property (flat was also freehold) is not for an amateur investor like me. Luckily i found this information out before spending money on survey fees.

DannyboyMidlands

Doozergirl wrote: »

You can pay a structural engineer for verbal advice for about £75 an hour! Calculations are only needed if they think work is required and then, only if you actually want those calcs to carry out the work. If you want to pull out instead or reduce your offer to reflect 2 bedrooms, you can. They can tell by looking at the floor depths how big the joists are likely to be and whether any movement is occurring. You can start with the basics and work back as far as you like.

The vendor might be happy to pay for that verbal advice. It seems that the attempt to apply for Building Control Approval would suggest that it hasn't been totally bodged. You don't invite a BC officer in for a laugh.

I'm a structural engineer and wouldn't work on that basis. If a Client asks me to investigate the structural adequacy of something then I need to take reasonable care in my inspection. ie I need to see the structure and then do some calcs to justify the various elements.

Standing in the room below, looking up at the ceiling and saying "looks alright guv, that'll be 75 quid please" is no use to anybody and a waste of money. I suspect the OP can do that for themselves.

Yorkie1

sveedy wrote: »

having had a look at the planning permission submissions it seems the first application was rejected (dormer dimensions too big) but the 2nd one granted subject to conditions (material used for dormer window, hours of works etc). for some reason the dormer was not constructed and there are two velux window things instead.

So does this mean that the construction does not comply with the Planning Permission that was granted?

Doozergirl

I'm a bit bemused - if we needed structural engineers calculations for every beam and joist 'to be sure' then every Building Survey written by a chartered surveyor wouldn't be worth the paper it's written on.

A structural engineer knows there is a grey area between what is safe and what meets building regulations. I know for a fact that the joists between the floors in my house are safe but do not meet building regulations, because they were put in 80 years ago. Nobody questions whether they are safe or not by doing calculations.

Structural engineers do not just say "that'll be £500" before they've walked in the door. If they feel the need for further investigation or calcs, then they will tell you. We have had countless nods on things being fine, or indeed just informal advice saying not - at which point we make a decision on whether we want to proceed with further work or not.

I'm not trying to push the OP in any direction at all. I just don't believe that the immediate advice should be 'walk away' without trying to explain what the options are and what a lack of BCA may or may not mean.

sonastin

Agree with Doozergirl. As a professional engineer (not structural, different discipline) I would happily sell an "opinion" for a lower cost. You may not rely on it as giving any form of guarantee as to the exact suitability or functional capability of a bit of engineering work. But on the basis that a) the general population don't have the training or experience that I have, b) my professional opinion based on the information available and no more, and c) giving no guarantees based on the fact that I don't necessarily have all the information, my professional "guesswork" is worth more to joe public than his best guess. So he can pay me for it and get some consideration for his payment. If he wants guarantees, he can pay more as I will need to ascertain more detail than is needed for a professional "best guess" opinion.