Tax underpayment: employer error

chrismac1

Well if all was hunky dory and HMRC were doing the right thing, then presumably they'd have said "hands up" on esc A19 before now and this whole thread would have no reason to exist. The term "ongoing saga" makes me suspect that instead HMRC are leaving no stone unturned and moving every mountain in an effort to do precisely nothing. My simple message to the OP is not to be deterred, not to give up, to gain solace from the many other Esc A19 threads on this site which have started out like yours and finished in defeat for HMRC.

BoGoF

Your "simple message" was just another of your boring rants which had absolutely no relevance to the OP's post. Most of the regular contributors here are fed up with your vendetta and your tedious stories of your clients. Maybe you should spend more time on that other site you participate in......you'll get the back slapping you feel you deserve there.

Mikeyorks

chrismac1 wrote: »

Well if all was hunky dory and HMRC were doing the right thing, then presumably they'd have said "hands up" on esc A19 before now and this whole thread would have no reason to exist.

In what way does ESC A19 apply in this case? Are we back to your misunderstandings of a year ago that 'I thought my affairs were in order' ...... is all it is about.

There is no way ESC A19 even remotely applies in this case.

antonic

No its HMRC`s fault for acting on the faulty information provided by the employer, because after all HMRC are ALWAYS at fault. (And yes HMRC do make mistakes like accountants do as well).

Mikeyorks wrote: »

In what way does ESC A19 apply in this case? Are we back to your misunderstandings of a year ago that 'I thought my affairs were in order' ...... is all it is about.

Pennywise

But even if HMRC demand the tax from the employer, the employer in turn can chase the tax from the OP. The reality is that it's the OP's tax that hasn't been paid, so the OP has benefitted to the tune of £3k. I can't imagine the employer wouldn't try to recover this back from the OP if HMRC demand it.

chrismac1

I make the assumption that both the employers in 2007-2008 sent in their end of year returns accurately in May 2008, and that the OP is being open and honest with us. On that basis, HMRC had all the information required to get the 07-08 tax correct by 31 May 2008. Any commercial accountant would be fired for not informing the taxpayer of the problem by 31 August 2008 at the very latest, HMRC very generously have until 5 April 2010 if Esc A19 is to be ruled out on "too late" grounds. I further assume the OP was not told about the problem by that date, hence Esc A19 is perfectly valid and should be pursued until HMRC throw the towel in.

Mikeyorks

chrismac1 wrote: »

I make the assumption that both the employers in 2007-2008 sent in their end of year returns accurately in May 2008

The assumption has no relevance. For the umpteenth time of telling you - on these threads - the P14 does not constitute 'information' as considered under ESC A19.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/PAYE95055.htm (final para)

hence Esc A19 is perfectly valid and should be pursued until HMRC throw the towel in.

It isn't valid and it's not going to happen!

Pennywise

Mikeyorks wrote: »

The assumption has no relevance. For the umpteenth time of telling you - on these threads - the P14 does not constitute 'information' as considered under ESC A19.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/pommanual/PAYE95055.htm (final para)



It isn't valid and it's not going to happen!

Don't be too sure. Presumably HMRC received a copy of the P45 from the old employer. They'll also have received new starter details from the new employer. HMRC should have matched these together. Obviously if new employer simply posted off a paper copy of the old employer P45, then they wouldn't have know the new employer had set it up wrong. BUT if the new employer had sent in an electronic new starter notification that wasn't correct, i.e. didn't include the prior gross and tax, then HMRC definitely should have picked up the new employer error and issued the correct PAYE code with previous gross/tax figures. P45 do constitute information. The OP needs to find out exactly what the new employer sent to HMRC - i.e. a copy of the P45/6 details the new employer issued to HMRC. OP can get this info via a freedom of information request to HMRC if they won't give it voluntarily.

sarahk100574

No one seems to have noticed (sorry if i've missed it) but £3000 is about twice what you have owed if it had simply been a case of giving PA twice in one year...?? So there must be more to OP's situation than new employer not processing P45... that would result in much lower overpayment. I would assume that either BIK's not processed correctly, or that the 'error' goes further back than switching employments mid tax year.... its really hard to underpay tax by £3000 in one year!

It would be like earning approx £15k without paying any tax, surely Op you noticed such an inconsistency?

Unfortunately, you will probs find that the onus was on you to point out the error much sooner and thus reducing overpayment earlier... hmrc will tell you that its up to you to check its right, even if an employer makes an error. Sorry its not what you want to hear, but try bargaining for time to pay off slowly and think of it as a cheap retrospective loan!

Windsorcastle

Firstly, thankyou to everyone who has tried to be helpful and posted useful advice and constructive comments. :T Secondly, I find it depressing that there are always a few smartarses on these forums who have to make snide comments and sneer at someone who is asking for help, by implying that 'of course you knew' and that I am either stupid or dishonest! I have been totally honest and I can't be the only person who finds income tax confusing and perplexing.:(

Just to clarify to everyone who keeps saying surely I should have noticed - a few months before I got this demand for underpayment, I also received a tax REFUND from HMRC for about £80. So why the hell were they sending me a refund when I had this big underpayment outstanding from 4 years ago?! Surely you can see why that would have made me think my affairs were in order.

Also, I was advised that I did have a strong claim for ESC A19 on a number of counts, not least of which was the huge delay in HMRC notifying me, which was well outside the deadline they set themselves, which is to notify you by the end of the following tax year after the year in which the tax was underpaid. My alleged underpayment occurred in tax year 2007/8, yet I received the first notification on March 30th 2011, a full 3 years after the end of the tax year in question.