Damage to Property - who is liable?

Jaynorth_2

Hi

I own and live in a first floor flat of a purpose built block with a property management company overseeing the maintenance of the entire block. A few months ago my downstairs neighbour wrote me a letter stating that my overflow pipe was leaking and had caused damage to the flat below.

I investigated and found that the leaking overflow pipe was for the flat above mine, so I informed the occupier and left it at that. Then back in November I noticed that my bedroom wall just below the pipe was showing signs of damp so I asked the occupier downstairs if there had been progress and she said that she had spoken to her landlord who had contacted the owner of the topflat and he had agreed to take responsibility for the damage and make an insurance claim for it to be repaired.

I do not have the details of the owner of the property so I contacted my managing agents and asked them to contact the owner and inform them that my flat had also been damaged by their leaking overflow pipe.This was in November, my managing agent did not respond so I sent him an email in December requesting an update on the situation. I still did not get a response until today when he suggested that I write to the owners and explain the situation to them. I replied and asked him to provide their details but he then turned around and said I should contact the tenants of the flat and file a claim through the building insurance company which just so happens to be a sister company of the managing group.

Am I right in thinking this is unreasonable? surely if a claim is to be filed it should be by the person that is liable for the damage and not by me? I told him that I would prefer to deal with the owners of the property direct because as he is aware, I have had some ongoing issues with the current tenants and so would rather not have to deal with them at all.

G_M

Who lives in the flat upstairs? Tenants? or an owner-occupier? Have you spoken to them?

To be honest, the simplest solution is to speak to the occupants and find out why the overflow is leaking. 99 times out of 100 it is a faulty ball valve which is either a 5 minute DIY job to fix, or a half hour DIY job to fix!

The issue here is that because it has been ignored, damage has been caused elsewhere (below).

Again, it depends what the cause is, but my guess is that this is NOT a building maintenance issue, but is a flat maintenance one. Thus the flat-owner is responsible both for the repair, and the consequential damage. However, you'd need to read the lease, AND know the exact cause, to be sure.

If so, payment for your own repairs should be requested (demamnded) from the upstairs flat.

Even if tenanted, tenants have a duty to act in a 'tenant-like' manner and can be held responsible for damage they cause, or fail to report/get repaired. However, the landlord of the upstairs flat (if tenanted) is a better 1st step.

Have you actually knocked on their door and discussed the leak???

Jaynorth_2

The flat is occupied by tenants but I have ongoing noise issues with them so we are currently not on speaking terms, which is why I thought it would be better to deal with the landlord of the upstairs flat direct and this is what the managing agent suggested first then decided not to pass on their details. I knocked on the door of the upstairs flat on the day that I discovered the problem but they did not bother opening the door because of the ongoing noise issues I have had with them and their landlord is aware of the ongoing issue but has turned a blind eye because in his words 'they are good tenants because they pay each month'.

The agent is suggesting that I write to the tenants of the upstairs flat but I am almost certain that any letter that I send to them will end up in the dustbin so there is not much point in that.

BitterAndTwisted

Send two copies of the same letter: one to the tenants and the other to the landlord. Presumbly you've been in contact with the landlord already if you've had a conversation abut their having been good rent-paying tenants.

G_M

Write to the tenants recorded delivery and threaten to sue them?

Write to "The Leaseholder" c/o the management company and hope they have an address to froward to.

Download the Land Registry Title for £4 to find the owner/landlord.

Trawl round all the local agents and see if any will 'fess up to managing the flat.

Put in an insurance claim - the insurers will not authorise remedial work to your damp till the cause (upstairs) is resolved, so may well take up the issue.

propertyman

Sadly as you suffered damage it is for you to complete the claim form and get estimates. Frankly it's not a great deal of work or time to do so.

As to the overflow you seem cursed with an indolent agent- this is simple stuff.

it is the owners responsibility to repair the overflow, but the person for whom they act, will be
a; concerned about the damage to the building the water causes while working its way into your flat
b: are obligated in most leases to enforce the terms of the lease if another owner ( you) makes it clear that

Make it it clear to them that

a; failure to act will mean that you will not be obligated to pay to any costs of remedial work to the building not part of your flat
b; that while their failure to act in good time will mean that you will look to them for any costs incurred in enforcing the terms of the lease a result of their failure to get their finger out.

Good luck.


Check their website for their complaint procedure and take it up through that way, including why it has taken over a month to respond in each case.

Jaynorth_2

propertyman wrote: »

Sadly as you suffered damage it is for you to complete the claim form and get estimates. Frankly it's not a great deal of work or time to do so.

As to the overflow you seem cursed with an indolent agent- this is simple stuff.

it is the owners responsibility to repair the overflow, but the person for whom they act, will be
a; concerned about the damage to the building the water causes while working its way into your flat
b: are obligated in most leases to enforce the terms of the lease if another owner ( you) makes it clear that

Make it it clear to them that

a; failure to act will mean that you will not be obligated to pay to any costs of remedial work to the building not part of your flat
b; that while their failure to act in good time will mean that you will look to them for any costs incurred in enforcing the terms of the lease a result of their failure to get their finger out.

Good luck.


Check their website for their complaint procedure and take it up through that way, including why it has taken over a month to respond in each case.

Thanks, but one question - if I put in a claim form does this not mean that my premium will go up when I receive my bill for my share of the building insurance later this year?

Jaynorth_2

I have followed the complaints procedure of the managing company and their response is that they are not authorised to give the names or addresses of property owners and they claim that the damage of the overflow pipe does not affect any communal areas so it is not something for them to deal with. They are now saying that I should write to the owner and send it to the property address but I still think the tenants will just bin it.

I am happy to pay the £4 and download the information from land registry but I am really annoyed with the behaviour of the managing company and just wonder if I can deduct the £4 from my service charge? I know it sounds petty but I am just really really annoyed with their attitude.

BitterAndTwisted

"If I put in a claim form does this not mean that my premium will go up when I receive my bill for my share of the building insurance later this year?"

No, it won't. Well, not directly by being not all of it. Your share of the buildings insurance is apportioned according to your lease. If there is an increase in premium it will be shared by all of the leaseholders according to their percentage.



"I am happy to pay the £4 and download the information from land registry but I am really annoyed with the behaviour of the managing company and just wonder if I can deduct the £4 from my service charge? I know it sounds petty but I am just really really annoyed with their attitude."

It just doesn't sound petty, it is to me. Being petty rarely gets problems sorted properly, especially when you need other people's cooperation. Spend your four quid and look at it as an investment against ensuring the damage doesn't get worse while you're not doing anything about this..

Jaynorth_2

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

"If I put in a claim form does this not mean that my premium will go up when I receive my bill for my share of the building insurance later this year?"

No, it won't. Well, not directly by being not all of it. Your share of the buildings insurance is apportioned according to your lease. If there is an increase in premium it will be shared by all of the leaseholders according to their percentage.



"I am happy to pay the £4 and download the information from land registry but I am really annoyed with the behaviour of the managing company and just wonder if I can deduct the £4 from my service charge? I know it sounds petty but I am just really really annoyed with their attitude."

It just doesn't sound petty, it is to me. Being petty rarely gets problems sorted properly, especially when you need other people's cooperation. Spend your four quid and look at it as an investment against ensuring the damage doesn't get worse while you're not doing anything about this..

Hmm, I understand what you are saying about being petty but according to the building insurance documents if I make a claim I will be expected to pay the excess which could run into hundreds of pounds, so how would I go about getting this excess back?

Jaynorth_2

Hello

I have spoken to the insurance company and they have confirmed that an excess of possibly £100 will need to be paid but they say I will need to sort out who will pay between myself, the managing agent and the owners of the other flat. Surely the managing agent (freeholder) should be able to impose upon the owner of the other flat to pay the excess for the claim or is it down to me to pay it and then attempt to reclaim it through legal means?