Clarification of reg 17 of Distance Selling Regs

unholyangel

I already told you. Although you seem to have completely disregarded my post.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you feel uncollected goods do not cover your situation but why (for some insane reason) you think unsolicited goods do?

unholyangel

Here's what is relevant:
Selling uncollected or abandoned goods
If you are in possession of another person’s goods you can sell them if they remain uncollected, as long as:-
the original owner is responsible for collecting the goods. The goods cannot be sold if it is your responsibility to return them; and
any money received from the sale is returned to the original owner or, if this is not possible, kept on account for them. The owner only loses their right to the money after six years; and
you follow the correct procedure.

Procedure for obtaining the right to sell uncollected or abandoned goods
If you want to sell the goods you must take reasonable steps to trace the original owner if they, or their whereabouts, is unknown. This depends on the circumstances, but might include placing advertisements in local newspapers, notices on local community notice boards or contacting a trade association if the owner has a business.
If you have taken reasonable steps to trace the owner, but have not been successful, you can sell the goods. It is worth keeping a note of what you did to trace the owner.

If you trace the original owner, you must send two written notices to the owner before you sell the goods.
You must give the owner of the goods, a first written notice personally or by post stating:
that the owner is responsible for collecting the goods
the details of the goods and where they are
your name and address
how much money is owed, if any, for the goods when the notice is sent, for example, the cost of the repair or reasonable storage charges.
You must send the owner of the goods, by recorded delivery or registered post, a second written notice stating:
you intend to sell the goods if they are not collected by a date given in the notice
the details of the goods and where they are
your name and address
how much money is owed, if any, for the goods, when the notice is sent.

If the owner of the goods owes you money, the period between the second notice and the sale of the goods must be at least three months.

What happens if the owner does not collect the goods
If the owner does not collect the goods by the date given in the notice, and you are sure that the goods belong to the person who has been sent the notices, then you may:
keep the goods
sell the goods
get rid of the goods.
If the goods are sold they will then legally belong to the person who has bought them.

What happens to the money from the sale
If you are the person selling the goods, you must be able to show the original owner that the sale was handled properly to get a fair price for the goods. Apart from the expenses of selling the goods, for example, storage charges or auction fees, the original owner must be given the money from the sale if their address is known. If the goods had been left for repair and were then not collected, the cost of the repair work can also be deducted. If not, the money must be kept for the original owner. However, after six years the owner cannot claim, or sue, for the money.

BeerMonster

unholyangel wrote: »

I already told you. Although you seem to have completely disregarded my post.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you feel uncollected goods do not cover your situation but why (for some insane reason) you think unsolicited goods do?

I haven't disregarded your post it is just that the information you have provided appears to relate to the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 which is relevant to businesses like landlords or repair shops who have been left with their customers stuff. In particular the requirement to look after the stuff for an extended period of time and not to use it is at odds with Reg 17(7) of the DSRs which seem to excuse me from looking after the item after 21 days yet don't go so far as to say that I can smash it up/bin it etc which is really all a bit vague.

It may be that the advice you have posted is my only recourse but I feel sure there must be a better answer. Hopefully if I get a s75 refund then the CC company will want repossess the sofa.

Anyway, it seems I have stumbled uopn an unfortunate omission from consumer protection legislation and as I have 2 new sofas on order from a reputable (hopefully) supplier, my flat is going to get a little crowded. Still the extra seating will be useful for parties!:)

wealdroam

BeerMonster wrote: »

Is there something in that act that I've missed or have I been given a load of BS by a call centre idiot?

Another possibility could be that Consumer Direct have made a mistake.

Note that that is not the same as given a load of BS by a call centre idiot.

I am not inclined to help further. Good luck.

unholyangel

Uncollected or abandoned goods
A person may leave goods which belong to them with someone else and appear to have abandoned them. Examples include:-
scaffolding or other equipment left by builders on site
books or records left with friends
uncollected goods left at a shop for repair
uncollected goods left by a tenant in a landlord’s property
goods ordered and received but then rejected or not paid for,and the seller has failed to collect them

If you have uncollected or abandoned goods, you have a duty to look after them, but cannot use them or treat them as your own.
You must take good care of goods which have been left with you. You may be held legally responsible if the goods are lost, stolen or damaged while in your care. However, the amount of care you need to take depends on whether or not you have a contract with the owner.
Examples of when you have a contract with the owner include when goods have been left in your shop for repair or a tenant has moved out of your property and left their belongings behind.
Examples of when you don't have a contract with the owner include when friends have left books or DVDs at your home. If you have a contract with the owner, the amount of care you need to take of the goods is greater than if you don't have a contract. You may have to compensate the owner if something happens to their goods which could have been prevented if reasonable safeguards had been taken. If you don't have a contract with the owner of the goods, you must look after the goods as if they were your own. This means that the amount of care you have to take is lower.

I fail to see why you think your goods aren't covered seeing as they're listed as an example of what constitutes uncollected or abandoned goods.

Remember to keep a copy of the letter you send along with the reference number for recorded delivery. And keep it for 6 years. If they try to make a claim against you, thats your proof that you informed them they had to collect and they failed to do so.

Optimist

BeerMonster wrote: »

I haven't disregarded your post it is just that the information you have provided appears to relate to the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 which is relevant to businesses like landlords or repair shops who have been left with their customers stuff. In particular the requirement to look after the stuff for an extended period of time and not to use it is at odds with Reg 17(7) of the DSRs which seem to excuse me from looking after the item after 21 days yet don't go so far as to say that I can smash it up/bin it etc which is really all a bit vague.

It may be that the advice you have posted is my only recourse but I feel sure there must be a better answer. Hopefully if I get a s75 refund then the CC company will want repossess the sofa.

Anyway, it seems I have stumbled uopn an unfortunate omission from consumer protection legislation and as I have 2 new sofas on order from a reputable (hopefully) supplier, my flat is going to get a little crowded. Still the extra seating will be useful for parties!:)

You have become a involuntary bailee which is what that particular piece of legislation is supposed to cover.

BeerMonster

unholyangel wrote: »

I fail to see why you think your goods aren't covered seeing as they're listed as an example of what constitutes uncollected or abandoned goods.

Remember to keep a copy of the letter you send along with the reference number for recorded delivery. And keep it for 6 years. If they try to make a claim against you, thats your proof that you informed them they had to collect and they failed to do so.

I didn't see that line in your earlier post. It still seems contradictory to the DSRs. I was really hoping that someone could provide a reference for the claim in wikipedia that the goods become unsolicited after 21 days. I mean that procedure really is not consumer friendly all.

Think i'll write to the OFT and see if they can suggest something. At least it might alert them to fact that there is a fairly important omission from their legislation. Though their website pretty much tells consumers not to bother contacting them.

unholyangel

BeerMonster wrote: »

I didn't see that line in your earlier post. It still seems contradictory to the DSRs. I was really hoping that someone could provide a reference for the claim in wikipedia that the goods become unsolicited after 21 days. I mean that procedure really is not consumer friendly all.

Think i'll write to the OFT and see if they can suggest something. At least it might alert them to fact that there is a fairly important omission from their legislation. Though their website pretty much tells consumers not to bother contacting them.

As i said in my first post, they are not now and nor have they ever been (or will ever be) unsolicited goods.

For it to be classified as unsolicited, there needs to have been no request by you or made on your behalf. There has been a request and therefore they are not able to be classed as unsolicited.

unholyangel

Out of interest, why exactly are the company refusing to refund you?

arcon5

op, you seem to miss some important points already made..

although you may have grounds to reject it under SOGA or the DSR regulations, you need to decide on what grounds you are rejecting it. The difference being, if rejecting under DSRs then (depending on their terms) it is likely YOU that must return the goods to them at your expense. If rejecting under SOGA then it is their responsibility to bare the costs of return - in which case S17 of DSRs will not apply as you have not used these rights to reject the goods.